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Discussion Starter #1
whats with all the hype on how fast a bow can shoot? expecally when a heavier arrow and head will do far superior damage. yeah you cant shoot twice as far and impress your buddys with a lighter setup but anything within 30yds is drt with a heiver setup .which 30yds is as far as most shoot anyway. id take a heavy arrow traveling at 290-310fps any day over a lighter setup flying at 320-340fps. the kenetic energy is just insane with a heavy setup. it is a disadvantage at longer distances but why take away weight when you can have insane penatration an more kenetic energy. the fps I used is just an examle over most crossbows. I shoot a bow that is around 300fps and have found that a heavier setup is a serious advantage.
 

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I am in the speed is overrated and over hyped camp when it comes to crossbows. I prefer mine in the 320-350 range.
Once we start to get higher than that, alot of stress to imparted on the bow itself and accuracy can begin to suffer.

I am also somewhat concerned that the emphasis on speed as the potential to hurt our sport moving forward with many states yet to go that do not allow crossbows in archery. Archery was and still is a close range sport. We all should never lose sight of that.

I would much prefer that the manufacturers focus on better triggers, reliability, weight, compactness and safety.
 

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i shoot a heavy setup out of my parker tornado...125 grain slick trick magnums and a carbon express red hot bolt...was shooting a 150 grain excalibur boltcutter broadhead but think i was getting way to much drop on my shots way too early into a shot
 

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dpms said:
I would much prefer that the manufacturers focus on better triggers, reliability, weight, compactness and safety.
X2
 

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cmc5028 said:
more speed = more kinetic energy
True to a point. Usually as a trade off, you will give up arrow weight to gain speed. By giving up weight, you are insuring that your arrow will slow rapidly. Drag on the fletching works much faster on a light arrow.

Taken from the Beginner's Guide to Crossbows - Crossbow Magazine Book Series:
Momentum should be an important part of any discussion concerning speed, weight and downrange performance. Momentum is speed multiplied by mass. Let’s say that we shoot a 350 grain arrow out of a given crossbow and get 330 fps(feet per second). Shooting a 418 grain arrow achieves 310 fps out of the same bow. Using this example, we will use gr/fs(grains per foot second). The 330 fps arrow will yield 115,500 gr/fs. The 418 fps arrow will yield 129,580 gr/fs.

What does this all mean? The advantage of the heavier arrow is that as the arrow tries to slow down, momentum tires to keep it going. Kinetic energy quantifies the amount of work the arrow could do as a result of the motion, but the momentum is what will get it there. Downrange, the heavier arrow will be traveling faster than the lighter arrow, resulting in more energy transfer and better trajectory.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
arrowhead said:
cmc5028 said:
more speed = more kinetic energy
True to a point. Usually as a trade off, you will give up arrow weight to gain speed. By giving up weight, you are insuring that your arrow will slow rapidly. Drag on the fletching works much faster on a light arrow.

Taken from the Beginner's Guide to Crossbows - Crossbow Magazine Book Series:
Momentum should be an important part of any discussion concerning speed, weight and downrange performance. Momentum is speed multiplied by mass. Let’s say that we shoot a 350 grain arrow out of a given crossbow and get 330 fps(feet per second). Shooting a 418 grain arrow achieves 310 fps out of the same bow. Using this example, we will use gr/fs(grains per foot second). The 330 fps arrow will yield 115,500 gr/fs. The 418 fps arrow will yield 129,580 gr/fs.

What does this all mean? The advantage of the heavier arrow is that as the arrow tries to slow down, momentum tires to keep it going. Kinetic energy quantifies the amount of work the arrow could do as a result of the motion, but the momentum is what will get it there. Downrange, the heavier arrow will be traveling faster than the lighter arrow, resulting in more energy transfer and better trajectory.
thanks for explaining this, this shows how a heavier arrow has its advantages even though you arent getting a higher fps.
 

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I am shooting 545 grains now. Many think that is way too heavy for deer but I am a fan of heavy projectiles in guns and bows.
 

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I'll go against the grain here and say that I'll take all the speed I can get without sacrificing noise,wear on equipment and shootability.Speed allows a lot more room for error when judging distance.That gives me confidence and allows me to concentrate without second guessing myself.Deer and relatively thin skinned and it doesn't take a lot of momentum to stick and arrow through one and into the dirt.I hunt with a compound,not a crossbow and I shoot a 386gr arrow at 71 lbs.MY bow is quiet,tuned perfectly and shoots BH's like darts at 325 fps.I generally replace the string and cable every spring and it never moves until I replace it again the next spring.To date,I've never cracked a limb or had any other type of malfunction.My top pin is good from point blank range to just about 35 yards.I range a 35yard circle of death around my stand and anything that steps in that circle,leaves with deflated lungs.Speed is a huge benefit in my experience.

I got a chance to play around with one of the newer scorpyds.It shot through the chrony at over 365 fps.The noise level rivaled a lot of compounds and it balanced pretty nice.That thing was in the vitals from 10 yards to just over 40 yards with the top crosshair.If I knew the range,I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer at over 50 yards with that thing.I have no doubt it would be a deer killing SOB and speed was one of the big factors that made it that way.

You don't need speed to kill deer but the more you have,the easier it gets.That's a cold hard fact.

At one time,speed wasn't necessarily the advantage it is today.Hunters tried getting more speed with overdraws,underspined arrows and mechanical BH's.With the technology in today's bows and crossbows,there really isn't any disadvantage as long as you stay within reasonable limits.
 

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The biggest disadvantage I see with the faster crossbows? It becomes very difficult to build an arrow that flies well over about the 365 f.p.s. threshold. I have a crossbow that shoots 379 f.p.s. here, and it's the most miserable bow I shoot because of the arrow issue. It shoots two lines to 40 yards. The lines are 10 inches apart. Like dce said, there is an advantage to that. That is the only reason I still have that particular bow.
 

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arrowhead said:
The biggest disadvantage I see with the faster crossbows? It becomes very difficult to build an arrow that flies well over about the 365 f.p.s. threshold. \
Yep. Crossbows are a different animal. Been shooting the very fast Barnett Vengeance some lately and I had some trouble getting acceptabe accuracy with the supplied arrows.

I just don't see the need for speeds above 350fps in crossbows. As I said before, I believe the speed game may hurt our sport. There are so many other areas on crossbows that need attention. Speed isn't one of them.
 

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Agree with DPMS, give me a compact, reliable, lightweight crossbow with a good trigger and positive safety. Quiet would be good too and it shouldn't wear out servings before 500 shots. Couple that with excellent customer service and a good warranty and you will be all set.

Reliability and lightweight seem to be the most important to me, on my list.
 

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I agree with all that but having more speed doesn't always mean a big compromise.As technology improves,the gap lessons.

I also want a quiet,reliable and trouble free bow and I won't sacrifice speed over any of those.However,it's possible to have it all and it changes every year.

All other things considered,more speed is a huge advantage.It's nothing more than a cycle.When bows first started,breaking 300 fps,there was a price to pay.Today,the bottom end bows are shooting at least that fast and more reliable and more quiet than the top end bows a decade earlier.The same will happen with crossbows.People want speed and speed sells.Every year,the crossbows will get faster and R&D will come up with ways to tame them down to make that speed work.Crossbow manufacturers still have to be cautious with their improvements because they still have a huge way to go in many states.Once a sufficient market share is available,you'll see the technology go crazy.I'm not a crossbow expert by an stretch of the imagination but I've seen some big strides over the past couple of years.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
dpms said:
I am shooting 545 grains now. Many think that is way too heavy for deer but I am a fan of heavy projectiles in guns and bows.
im at just a little more than that and one thing I can say with the heavier arrows in xbows the damage is much more impressive. a chest cavity full of blood and jelly where the heart once was speaks all the words that need spoken.
 

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Using the same BH,A HEAVIER ARROW WILL NOT DO ANY MORE DAMAGE THAN A LIGHTER ARROW MOVING AT A FASTER SPEED.A heavier arrow may penetrate more but that's usually a moot point on a whitetail with todays technology.I've killed over 40 deer with 4 bladed slick trick magnums and and arrow weighing considerably less than 400 grains.Every time I got a complete passthrough and every deer except one dropped within sight.A sharp BH that pentrates all the way and holds together will kill deer will boring consistancy,regardless of how much it weighs.
 

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I forget the exact figures and where i read it but the article said that after 290 fps the trajectory of the arrow doesn't doesnt really improve a lot until about 410 fps. So buying a xbox or regular bow thats 25 fps faster really doesnt matter. Go for the one you like at the price you can afford.
 

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I'm not into speed at all..I'm shooting a Buckcommander at 365fps and a Ten Point XLT Turbo 340FPS...both xbows are shooting 437 grains and 455..2 inch Predator vanes with Rage Bh's..I'm more into smooth and quietness and the ten Point has the best of both worlds...
 
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