2 - yotehunter74 Did you notice that Steve in PA totally ignored all of my previous posts? I guess that means that he doesn't want to deal with the arguments or law that I cited there, even though it did answer his questions and even cited the law he asked for.
3 - Steve in PA, I do not know or understand why you seem to be so anti-photo ID carry. I'm shocked and disappointed to learn that you are supposedly a police officer. I can't begin to understand why one LEO would try to make it harder for another officer to do their job by encouraging people to not carry some form of ID, especially a simple photo ID. I'm just honestly feeling frustrated for the WCOs, if this is the kind of support that they get from fellow law enforcement.
I would like to address a few misleading statements that were made:
Statement</u> -- There is no law requiring the carrying of a driver's license or photo ID. .
<u>Response</u> -- True. There is no specific Title 34 law requiring the carrying of a DL or Photo ID. You ARE required to supply some form of positive identification to WCO's and landowners.
Statement</u> -- What was done before photo driver's license and ID's??????
<u>Response</u> -- You answered your own question by citing:
Sec. 901. Powers and duties of enforcement officers.
(a) Powers. - Any officer whose duty it is to enforce this title or any officer investigating any alleged violation of this title shall have the power and duty to:
(14) Demand and secure identification from any person.
(Definition: <u>Identification - evidence of identity</u>)
(<u>Explanation -</u> Photo IDs did not exist back then, so Officers asked people to produce other documents that would help prove their identity.)
(16) Require the holder of any license or permit required by this title or by commission regulation to sign the holder's name on a separate piece of paper in the presence of the requesting officer.
(<u> Explanation -</u> Photo IDs did not exist back then, so Officers would have people write things and sign their names in a crude effort at in-the-field handwriting analysis, in order to verify whether or not a person was legitimately in possession of a license.)
Statement</u> -- There is no statuatory law to carry any type of identification on your person, other than a drivers license when operating a motor vehicle.
<u>Response</u> -- False. I would argue that Steve's own citation of Section 901 (a)(14) and my citation of Section 2711(a)(12) are just such laws requiring a person to supply more than verbal information and have been upheld in court.
Statement</u> -- Positive ID does not mean having a photo ID.
<u>Response</u> -- That is an absurd statement! Having a photo ID is the simplest form of a Positive ID! It is the quickest, easiest method of making a positive ID, because the Photo ID generally contains two or more verifiable information: a "recent" photograph, Name, DOB, Ht, Wt, Eyes, Hair, etc!
Statement</u> -- Not having a photo ID is NOT a game law violation.
<u>Response</u> -- True... to a limited point, provided that you have OTHER identification for the WCO. Not having it CAN be cause for a violation for failure to provide ID, if you aren't able to provide other forms of identification. As I pointed out earlier, the faster and more accurately you can prove your identity and residency to the WCO, the less cause the WCO has to question your residency status and take you forthwith to a DJ.
Statement</u> -- I am a police officer and deal with ID'ing people all the time. Shoplifting is a crime. Not having a photo ID on you again, is NOT a game law violation. Positive ID does NOT = photo ID. It means providing name, DOB, address, etc. All information that can be verified.
<u>Response</u> -- You seem to have no understanding of the differences between your job and that of a WCO. You are comparing apples to oranges. Let's use your example for comparison.
You are, in a store, confronting a suspected shoplifter. Your unit is parked at the storefront curb in a residential area or business complex, within a few miles/minutes of your Dept. HQ. You have access to: the store's landlines, numerous cell phones, your portable radio that probably has access to your Dept and local County EMA (and possibly PSP), plus you probably have a computer in your vehicle with access to all of the information that you ever need at your fingertips...
you ask the suspect for ID... I'm sorry officer I forgot my wallet,...the shoplifter gives you a name, DOB, address, etc... and you call it in or go to your computer and plug it in.... blip, blip... Name Not Found.. Sir, try again... blip, blip...name Found, but not with that DOB... Now, sir, you are not being honest with me, let's try again... etc., etc., at what point do you take them to the station and do a more thorough check on them Steve??
A WCO is outdoors, in all kinds of weather, dealing with one or more hunters or trappers at a time. Their Regional Office (Dept HQ) is dozens of miles and an average of an hour away. He/she is most likely some distance from their vehicle: in a field or woods, they have no landlines, they may have a cell phone, their portable if they have one is short range and even their main vehicle radios can't do half what even a small police dept.'s can do, and they don't have computers in their vehicles to run instant checks on people. If they want information on someone they need to have radio dispatchers at their Regional Offices run any identity checks, IF they can reach the office on their antiquated radio system.
And, when they are confronted, in the field, with someone (or 3 or 5 at a time) that has NO ID documents (photo or otherwise), as you pointed out the WCO's have a choice -- they can play "20 questions" (which ruins everyone's hunt) , they can take the subject back to the WCO's vehicle and play "20 Questions" there (which ruins everyone's hunt), or they can take the subject to the DJ on suspicion of being a Non-resident (which really ruins everyone's hunt!).
Statement</u> -- I don't know anything about your MDJ, but he needs to brush up on his laws, since there is no law that gives him the power to tell you to "bring someone in" so they can be identified. What is the MDJ going to do to verify the persons ID?
<u>Response</u> -- I think that an MDJ is certainly qualified to to determine whether or not a subject has or has not provided an officer with a sufficient amount of identification to satisfy a question of Residency! If the WCO has played "20 Questions" (or even "4 Questions") and decided that the subject deserves a trip to the DJ, that is where they can go. What the DJ then does to determine identity is up to the DJ. He/she may decide that the subject needs to be held until someone shows up with sufficient paperwork to prove residency status. Maybe the DJ will give the subject the opportunity of a time limit and a few phone calls to get proof ASAP. That is between the DJ and the subject that failed to provide sufficient ID.
And again, all of this was addressed earlier (see the dead horse).
Every hunter and trapper has to satisfactorily provide positive identification, which proves 1) that we are who we say we are, 2) and a current address that shows we are entitled to the license that we are in possession of, whether that license is Resident or Non-resident. The Burden of Proof of identification and residency is on the license buyer. It comes with the license.