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I finished a trade from an AR I had. The AR is fun, but from a hunting perspective in this state rather useless. I was able to work out a trade where I'll get a Winchester 1200 (28 inches and a ton of ammo) and a Remington 78 Sportsman chambered in .223 with a 3X9 Bushnell Scope (also a Sig P226 Navy, but that's not really for hunting) and also a ton of ammo. I figure this has me covered for hunting anything and anywhere in the state of the PA (and that in the case of .223 it can be both varmit and a deer round. Any thoughts?

Now I just need to find a place to start hunting.
 

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Re: I think this setup should do nicely for all game

The 223 is not a deer round. Will it kill a deer? Sure, but so will a 22 short. Unless you're going to pass on all but standing shots at short range, you're going to lose deer with that round.
 

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Re: I think this setup should do nicely for all game

dtpa said:
The 223 is not a deer round. Will it kill a deer? Sure, but so will a 22 short. Unless you're going to pass on all but standing shots at short range, you're going to lose deer with that round.
I was under the impression, based on 14 page thread here from ~2009 I found in Google, that 223 and the modern loads/bullets available make it a perfectly fine deer round. I also came across this American Hunter Article from last May which seems to indicate the same thing.
http://www.americanhunter.org/blogs/223-for-deer-hunting/

That said if it's not the Shotgun will work fine and the rifle can be a good varmint and groundhog removal tool.
 

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Re: I think this setup should do nicely for all game

Like was said...the 223 is not a big game round....it CAN be used...but imo it is best left in the hands of an expirienced hunter if being used for deer...and i would NEVER carry one bear hunting...no offense meant..we were all new hunters at one point or another...

New hunters are prone to making less than perfect shots...not completely understanding anatomy, shot placement etc...

A common 308, 270, 3006 etc will suite you much better imo...

The shotgun will work but it needs setup for deer hunting imo...sure you can shoot rifled slugs and possibly see decent accuracy...but with a bead sight and smooth bore its often about useless...good rifle sights or scope and experimenting with different slugs will be needed....or buy a rifles cantaliver barrel and scope for it and shoot sabots...

IF you are dead set on the 223...nosler makes partitions and i think barnes makes a deer bullet as well...you need a good bullet designed for deer...run of the mill varmint bullets is asking for wounded lost deer imo....

Good luck...id highly recommend a dedicated deer rifle....will treat you much better imo....
 

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Re: I think this setup should do nicely for all game

mauser06 said:
Like was said...the 223 is not a big game round....it CAN be used...but imo it is best left in the hands of an expirienced hunter if being used for deer...and i would NEVER carry one bear hunting...no offense meant..we were all new hunters at one point or another...
No offense taken, I appreciate all the advice I can get on here.

New hunters are prone to making less than perfect shots...not completely understanding anatomy, shot placement etc...
That's a valid point.

A common 308, 270, 3006 etc will suite you much better imo...

The shotgun will work but it needs setup for deer hunting imo...sure you can shoot rifled slugs and possibly see decent accuracy...but with a bead sight and smooth bore its often about useless...good rifle sights or scope and experimenting with different slugs will be needed....or buy a rifles cantaliver barrel and scope for it and shoot sabots...
For the moment, it's really the guns I have now, BUT by the time deer season rolls around (knock on wood) I'll be able to get an additional barrel or rifle. Keep in mind being situation in the SRA, there is an incentive to stick around with shotguns. However, now that I finally have a scope, I'll consider going back to a lever gun again for deer season...once again factoring economics and free time. Luckily for now, the only things that can be hunted (red tag excluded) are generally Turkey and Woodchucks, so I think I'll have some time to work on fundamentals before it becomes an issue with deer.

IF you are dead set on the 223...nosler makes partitions and i think barnes makes a deer bullet as well...you need a good bullet designed for deer...run of the mill varmint bullets is asking for wounded lost deer imo....
That's my plan. I have regular ones to scope in my rifle, and work on basics, but I'll get the proper ammo load for each animal.

Good luck...id highly recommend a dedicated deer rifle....will treat you much better
Thank you very much and truth be told, depending on when and where I hunt, I'll most likely do that.
 

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Re: I think this setup should do nicely for all game

Sounds like you understand where we come from and that is great! Hard to talk to a new hunter sometimes because we are just some idiots online...where as you got a magazine article so it MUST be true.....while it is true it is not the best option in this case...

Beong close to speacial reg areas a rifled shotgun barrel with cantaliever scope base on it with a good scope and sabot slugs will be a good option...can hunt anywhere in the state during the regular firearm season....and the sras...only "problem" for a new hunter and a shotgun is high recoil....but, it can be done with practice....

Deer season is a ways off yet...you got some time...i know guns arent the cheapest thing and all that...if you enjoy hunting you will likely end up with a few more guns...maybe not..but it kinda comes with thw territory!
 

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Re: I think this setup should do nicely for all game

gfanikf said:
That's my plan. I have regular ones to scope in my rifle, and work on basics, but I'll get the proper ammo load for each animal.
Are you going to hunt up state for deer with that .223?
 

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Re: I think this setup should do nicely for all game

mauser06 said:
Sounds like you understand where we come from and that is great! Hard to talk to a new hunter sometimes because we are just some idiots online...where as you got a magazine article so it MUST be true.....while it is true it is not the best option in this case...
True, which is why I understand where people are coming from. Honestly when I had a Marlin 336...that was the best gun, but at the time it didn't seem like I would actually wind up hunting (and buying a scope along with space issues) and also why I traded away a nice mossberg combo d'oh. On the bright side they weren't took expensive to begin with so it's not like trading away a 1k gun.

Beong close to speacial reg areas a rifled shotgun barrel with cantaliever scope base on it with a good scope and sabot slugs will be a good option...can hunt anywhere in the state during the regular firearm season....and the sras...only "problem" for a new hunter and a shotgun is high recoil....but, it can be done with practice....
That's kind of my thought too, luckily I've been pretty decent riding recoil. Though I really need to order a shotgun plug today before I forget about that. I'm sure I'll be able to find an aftermarket barrel from a Winchester 1200 floating around somewhere.

Deer season is a ways off yet...you got some time...i know guns arent the cheapest thing and all that...if you enjoy hunting you will likely end up with a few more guns...maybe not..but it kinda comes with thw territory!
No, I kind of expect that to happen, but I want to get a storage locker setup first before I get anymore, and demonstrate that I enjoy hunting and want to keep doing it, luckily I have time till it really comes up.

stevef said:
gfanikf said:
That's my plan. I have regular ones to scope in my rifle, and work on basics, but I'll get the proper ammo load for each animal.
Are you going to hunt up state for deer with that .223?
It depends, I suspect (cross fingers) with any luck, I'll have either a proper deer shotgun/rifle by the fall, so it will be a non issue and the 223 will become a varmit gun.
 

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Re: I think this setup should do nicely for all game

I wouldn't worry too much about people telling you that the 223 is not a deer round. Maybe its not the ideal deer round, but it will kill deer humanely and thats all there is too it.

You seem like your conscientious fellow and being new to hunting have lots of questions. Problem is, everyone has an opinion and thats what you get alot of on this site. From your other posts, I don't doubt that you'll learn the limitations of your 223 on deer and act accordingly.

Use a load with a bullet that is designed to penetrate and expand. Even if you have a super magnum, you should still only take responsible shots. People act like they need more gun to kill a deer or in case of a bad hit they will some how kill the deer. Reality is that a bad hit is a bad hit and it matters little if its an elephant gun or a 223.
 

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Re: I think this setup should do nicely for all game

The .223 is not a deer round. You can kill anything with anything but if you try to make a habit out of it it's really going to bite you one day. A .223 makes a good stunt, something to just see if you can do it. I don't know about everybody else but I'm not into stunts when I'm hunting and I don't want anything less than a completely adequate cartridge in my hands when that ten pointer steps out quartering towards me.
 

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Re: I think this setup should do nicely for all game

I agree.A .223 will kill deer with boring consistancy if sensible shots are taken with good bullets.One advantage of the .223 is cheap ammo.Shoot the heck out of that gun all summer from hunting positions and you won't have any problems.
 

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Re: I think this setup should do nicely for all game

dce said:
I agree.A .223 will kill deer with boring consistancy if sensible shots are taken with good bullets.One advantage of the .223 is cheap ammo.Shoot the heck out of that gun all summer from hunting positions and you won't have any problems.

You've posted multiple times about how lousy a deer gun a 35 Rem. is and now you're giving the OK for the .223? I'll take a 35 rem for deer everyday all day over the .223.
 

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Re: I think this setup should do nicely for all game

They aren't wearing kevlar, they are a thin skinned critter.

As long as you know when to pass on a bad shot, the 223 will take any deer in PA. You can't shoot one in the butt and expect it to fall over, you have to put it in the boiler room. Not really that hard to do and if you get a .224 bullet in there that will penetrate 8-10 inches and expand to create hydrostatic shock, it will work.

If you are not willing to pass on a deer that doesnt present a good path to the plumbing and HVAC, then the smaller caliber will not be your friend. Conversley, if you think you can replace talent and shot placement with horsepower, nothing that is the latest and greatest in the new gun magazine will work well.
 

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Re: I think this setup should do nicely for all game

I've posted multiple times that the .35 rem isn't the cannon that so many people claim it to be.I never claimed it wouldn't kill deer reliably.While a neither a .35 rem or a .223 wouldn't be my first choice,I wouldn't sit home and not hunt if that's all I had to use.If you take a deer through both lungs with either round,you'll have a dead deer and it will die every bit as fast with a .223 as it would a .35rem.Where you run into a problem is taking shots that are either too far or at a poor angle.Take sensible shots with a good bullet and you'll have no problems.Most of the people putting down the .223 have most likely never shot a deer or seen one shot with that round.I'd have no problems taking a standing broadside shot at a deer with a .223.
 

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Re: I think this setup should do nicely for all game

dce said:
I've posted multiple times that the .35 rem isn't the cannon that so many people claim it to be.I never claimed it wouldn't kill deer reliably.While a neither a .35 rem or a .223 wouldn't be my first choice,I wouldn't sit home and not hunt if that's all I had to use.If you take a deer through both lungs with either round,you'll have a dead deer and it will die every bit as fast with a .223 as it would a .35rem.Where you run into a problem is taking shots that are either too far or at a poor angle.Take sensible shots with a good bullet and you'll have no problems.Most of the people putting down the .223 have most likely never shot a deer or seen one shot with that round.I'd have no problems taking a standing broadside shot at a deer with a .223.


Disagree. I've found a .270 or .30-06 through both lungs kills faster than a .30-30 through both lungs. No way .22 diameter competes with .35 in wound channels.
 

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Re: I think this setup should do nicely for all game

Varmintmist said:
They aren't wearing kevlar, they are a thin skinned critter.

As long as you know when to pass on a bad shot, the 223 will take any deer in PA. You can't shoot one in the butt and expect it to fall over, you have to put it in the boiler room. Not really that hard to do and if you get a .224 bullet in there that will penetrate 8-10 inches and expand to create hydrostatic shock, it will work.

If you are not willing to pass on a deer that doesnt present a good path to the plumbing and HVAC, then the smaller caliber will not be your friend. Conversley, if you think you can replace talent and shot placement with horsepower, nothing that is the latest and greatest in the new gun magazine will work well.

Forget "hydrostatic shock". It's a sometimes thing. Sometimes deer and other animals collapse at a .243 shot and other times the same animals hit in the same place will run from a Weatherby magnum.
 

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Re: I think this setup should do nicely for all game

You can't forget hydrostatic shock.Even with a full metal jacket,there's going to be some shock.In any event,a .223 shooting a 55 gr bullet traveling at 3200 is going to create more hydrostatic shock and more damage in soft tissue than a 200 gr bullet traveling at 200 fps.
 

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Re: I think this setup should do nicely for all game

gfanikf said:
It depends, I suspect (cross fingers) with any luck, I'll have either a proper deer shotgun/rifle by the fall, so it will be a non issue and the 223 will become a varmit gun.
I seem to remember you are left handed. Is that right?
 

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Re: I think this setup should do nicely for all game

stevef said:
I seem to remember you are left handed. Is that right?
Correct, though for the moment I'll be learning on a right hand bolt. Truthfully when I had an AR, I never had issues (same with the Mini-14), besides a whiff of gas. That said if I do decide to later get a bolt gun in a different caliber, I might go for a left handed setup, then again I might be fine with the righty setup.


Honestly the only issue's I've had as a lefty is the Colt M4 22lr I had.



As detailed in this thread.
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-653083.html
 
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