haha. Nobody is happy unless they have someone to bash and hate on.
Hunters have never been happy
I found this picture that was taken on Dec. 14, 1987 at the bottom of Birch Run in the East Fork Valley of Potter County. Obviously some disgruntled hunters hung the sign next to East Fork Road after or during doe season.
Here's what it says:
![]()
Just goes to show that hunters are never happy. Any hunter that was breathing in 1987 knew that Potter County had a couple deer.
Here's what it says:
THANKS TO THE PA GAMELESS COMMISSION
BELOW IS POPLULATION IN THIS AREA AS OF DEC. 14 1987
Buck-0
Doe-0
Bear-0
Turkey-0
Squirrels-2
Trees-1 Billion
Hunters-2 Billion
DUMP THE GAMELESS COMMISSION
Just goes to show that hunters are never happy. Any hunter that was breathing in 1987 knew that Potter County had a couple deer.
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I hunted in 87 didnt seem to be that much complaining back than but we didnt have the net with these forums either.
same ppl that complaind then do now
Yo, I never used to complain, and most of the people I know never complained. Your statement is inaccurate.
Some years were better than others for sure, but I know how many steps I took in the Gameless Lands this year, and I know how many other long-time, experienced, dedicated hunters put in time this year and their overwhelming opinion and experience is that something isn't right.
And it's not being considered or heard. Dismissed as irrelevant. And I know that's wrong.
Some years were better than others for sure, but I know how many steps I took in the Gameless Lands this year, and I know how many other long-time, experienced, dedicated hunters put in time this year and their overwhelming opinion and experience is that something isn't right.
And it's not being considered or heard. Dismissed as irrelevant. And I know that's wrong.
No, it's their kids now. Rather than learn how to adjust and hunt, they learned to do the same things over and over, then blame others when it doesn't work.frank1969 said:same ppl that complaind then do now
I remember the hunters complaining that the deer had all been killed with the doe season and all of the doe licenses way back in the late 1950’s. I heard those complaints all through the 60’s and early 70’s as well.
Then in the mid 70’s I started enforcing the game laws and checking hunters. Every single year I heard hordes of hunters complaining there were no deer any more and it was all the Game Commission’s fault.
The complaining today is no greater than it was from the 50’s on, it is just that the dissatisfied hunters can make their complaints heard by many more people with the internet and Message Boards like this one. But, I actually also hear more hunters that do understand the habitat/deer relationships today then ever in the past too and that also can be attributed in large part of the internet and these Message Boards.
I think there are fewer deer in most of the old traditional deer areas today but I also know there are still as many deer in most areas as the habitat and other environmental conditions will allow. I also know that one of the biggest reasons hunters see fewer deer today has a lot more to do with the lack of hunting pressure and hunters moving deer than it does the actual deer numbers.
Dick Bodenhorn
Then in the mid 70’s I started enforcing the game laws and checking hunters. Every single year I heard hordes of hunters complaining there were no deer any more and it was all the Game Commission’s fault.
The complaining today is no greater than it was from the 50’s on, it is just that the dissatisfied hunters can make their complaints heard by many more people with the internet and Message Boards like this one. But, I actually also hear more hunters that do understand the habitat/deer relationships today then ever in the past too and that also can be attributed in large part of the internet and these Message Boards.
I think there are fewer deer in most of the old traditional deer areas today but I also know there are still as many deer in most areas as the habitat and other environmental conditions will allow. I also know that one of the biggest reasons hunters see fewer deer today has a lot more to do with the lack of hunting pressure and hunters moving deer than it does the actual deer numbers.
Dick Bodenhorn
I never heard anyone complaining around here until about 6 years ago now everone is disgruntled. Most folks knew there were deer even if they weren't seeing them now they know there aren't many and of course they aren't seeing them. I can point you in the direction of several large crews who drove all season and have been for decades and they will tell you there are very very few deer here.
I find that most people enjoy hearing they're own voice. I've had good seasons and bad. No sense in complaining, always another opportunity next yr
I think R.S.B. has some valid points, lack of hunters moving deer.
But just as hunters can make complaints on the Internet, the PGC and others who have a big affinity for it, don't really address complaints in a straightforward manner.
Some who post on this very forum seem to be very pro-PGC, perhaps even one time got a paycheck from them. There is little or no reaching out, trying to educate hunters or acknowledge frustrations or complaints. Just ridicule them, or otherwise prove the point that they know better, the people in the field are just lazy, stupid, ignorant hunters who want easy kills.
The complainers have always been there. But not in the numbers they exist today.
Just as a lot of hunters view the PGC as "the enemy", the PGC seems to view many of the hunters as "the stupid". Sides are being drawn and the trenches being reinforced more every year.
I have to believe those calling the shots really don't care anymore, they'll get their pensions funded from the DCNR same as the PGC.
We're living in the beginning of the end of hunting in PA as the heritage knew it. Today's kids are of the fast-food, video-game generation, today's leaders are of the make-a-buck generation, and as guys in their 20's become guys in their 40's, and guys in their 40's become guys in their 60's and guys in their 60's become names on granite, someone will look back like Steve McQueen at the end of "The Sand Pebbles" and say "What the heck happened?"
But just as hunters can make complaints on the Internet, the PGC and others who have a big affinity for it, don't really address complaints in a straightforward manner.
Some who post on this very forum seem to be very pro-PGC, perhaps even one time got a paycheck from them. There is little or no reaching out, trying to educate hunters or acknowledge frustrations or complaints. Just ridicule them, or otherwise prove the point that they know better, the people in the field are just lazy, stupid, ignorant hunters who want easy kills.
The complainers have always been there. But not in the numbers they exist today.
Just as a lot of hunters view the PGC as "the enemy", the PGC seems to view many of the hunters as "the stupid". Sides are being drawn and the trenches being reinforced more every year.
I have to believe those calling the shots really don't care anymore, they'll get their pensions funded from the DCNR same as the PGC.
We're living in the beginning of the end of hunting in PA as the heritage knew it. Today's kids are of the fast-food, video-game generation, today's leaders are of the make-a-buck generation, and as guys in their 20's become guys in their 40's, and guys in their 40's become guys in their 60's and guys in their 60's become names on granite, someone will look back like Steve McQueen at the end of "The Sand Pebbles" and say "What the heck happened?"
Much agreed, i can remember when the county i hunt only gave 6k doe tags and they raised 1k everyone said they was going to kill all the deer. Your point of hunters understanding more of habitat from boards i agree. The first year after AR i was talking to now retired WCO Tim Flanigan at a convience store, i shared that i felt Pa. was on the right track. He agreed and also went on about hunters being more educated now will make a good difference. Another point i made to him was even the regualtion book got so much better of explaining the program. I always thought the little book from many years ago was wrote by a bunch of grumpy old men of cant do this and that but never give any details of programs.
Had a guy tell me the other day that a fellow worker has a brother is a WCO. Everyone was giving him crap about no deer. I told him it wasent kind of fair for a WCO to be a "complaining Post" that they should get educated of how there state goverment works and compalin to the right source if unhappy.
There's a big assumption there that reporting was as accurate in the 1950's as it is in the 2010's, or that anyone even bothered to report them.
Betcha a lot of people shot 20, 30 deer or more off of the family farms in Fayette County in 1962 and none ever got reported.
And while we're at this, what were the timber sales in 1950 and 1962? Obviously there were no deer around to eat the trees, right? So we must've been selling trillions of board-feet of prime hardwoods.
Those seedlings growing back in the day of no deer must now be mature, so what are today's stats on the lumber sales?
Betcha a lot of people shot 20, 30 deer or more off of the family farms in Fayette County in 1962 and none ever got reported.
And while we're at this, what were the timber sales in 1950 and 1962? Obviously there were no deer around to eat the trees, right? So we must've been selling trillions of board-feet of prime hardwoods.
Those seedlings growing back in the day of no deer must now be mature, so what are today's stats on the lumber sales?
Thats neat, thanks for sharing.
I don't like to complain about deer numbers, I still like to hunt the big woods of Potter county. That is where I started hunting and will always hunt that area as long as I am able. My dilemma is I hear one person say there is deer there but not many hunters to move them, then on the other hand people saying that's a typical rifle hunter depending on others to move deer to them. All I know is that there is a definite decrease in deer in my area for whatever the reason is over the last 10 years. I'm not complaining I just don't understand those who say they're plenty of deer, if you adjust your hunting tactics and still don't see deer what is the answer.
Thats odd. I never heard anyone complain about "no deer" until the deer reduction plan was put into place. Everyone I know of was quite content too for many years.
Then along came a brilliant plan to "fix" things.
Then along came a brilliant plan to "fix" things.
I don't see your point Potterbound. Actually those statewide buck harvest numbers are pretty close to our buck harvest now. Nearly identical number of reported harvest. Remember that back then those numbers were actually reported harvests during those years. Not guestimates on harvests with 200% added in for reporting noncompliance. According to pgc, the numbers of usable buck harvest report cards that they recieve and base their estimates on is around 40k annually. Looks to be the same number actually reported then too.
So I guess we only had to go back 60 years to find buck harvests as low as ours now.
So I guess we only had to go back 60 years to find buck harvests as low as ours now.
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