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Don`t know if you would consider it building an arrow, but I shoot Easton Hexx 400`s`with a 7.2 GPI rating and a 6mm shaft instead of the lighter alum. inserts, I install the heavier brass H-break off inserts that can be adjusted to 75 or 50 grains for heavier FOC. I use the 75 gr. and top it with a 100 grain hunting broadhead. This set up works well for me shooting my Hoyt @ 63 LBS draw weight.

I like the extra weight on the front end, it seems to hit harder and gives me a good pass through as well with a well placed shot. For hunting I sight my bow in for 25 yards, this way I`m still good to 30 before it begins to drop. So if you plan on shooting a heavier FOC arrow at a farther distance they will drop faster depending on your bow and the draw weight. Hope this helps a little , Good Luck....
 

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Check this guy out, High FOC Arrow Building Basics - Ranch Fairy

He takes FOC to the extreme. No matter if you accept his theories, he's a hoot to watch:

 

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I did a few years ago.


Victory VAP 300s. 125gr head and 95gr stainless outserts.


505gr and around 20% FOC. Still 270-275fps.


They fly stupid good. So many benefits. No negatives.

I'm going to play around a little bit here soon and try to bump up the FOC a bit more...just cause. Lol.


Also shooting single bevels. I just wanna make dang sure my arrow comes out. Lol.


Ranch fairy will save you a lot of time. I used ontarget to figure out my shaft....i found that over 500gr i started to loose significant speed...so that was my target. 20% FOC was another target. I wanted a micro shaft if I could.


Very happy with the VAPS.



The flight benefits are just awesome.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I've been watching the "Ranch Fairy" videos and that's why I brought it up. I've always leaned towards a heavier arrow with a "little" more weight in the front. These guys are taking it further and it makes a lot of sense. Penetration is ridiculous and those guys don't seem to mind the loss of speed. It's very interesting and it's got me thinking of building and testing some arrows in the 525-550 grains.
 

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The broadhead is crazy important. You could probably get by without going to a single bevel by running a Magnus or something. Sturdy cut on contact and no crazy cut widths or anything.


When I first went to this arrow, I didn't think it was going to be stopped by a whitetail.

I decided to continue to run Grizztricks. 1 1/4" 4 blade.

I had a buck come in. I was 6-8ft high and he was within 10yds. He was working a scrape basically on the opposite side of an apple tree from me.

I don't know what happened. Maybe he moved as I sent it...maybe I hit an "invisible twig"..I don't know.

Shot was FORWARD of the shoulder but angled back. I got maybe 6-8" of penetration. I couldn't believe he ran off with that much arrow sticking out.

Long story short, I found him bedded in a field 4-6hrs after the shot. His head was swaying and he looked like he was about done. Came back the next morning and he was gone. Instant thought was someone stole him. Nope. He regained his energy and about a month later I got him on a camera.




Cursor is at the entrance. Angled down and back. Guessing it was a single lung stopped by the far shoulder.


Would I have killed him with a single bevel? I don't know. But I'm confident he would have had 2 holes in him.


I've seen slicktricks and grizztricks after encountering bone and it's not pretty. Ribs are fine. Heavy bone and back bone mangles and twists and snaps them and penetration stops. Broadhead and shaft integrity is critical. And they gotta be SHARP. And they gotta fly straight. A 700gr 30% foc arrow that isn't flying true and has some big flimsy blades still isn't going to penetrate well...

After that buck I went to single bevels. I keep a grizztrick in the quiver incase I see a turkey or coyote in season.




Same exact setup except with a single bevel...that's the exit hole. Buck was a couple yards from the base of my tree.


Come straight up the pocket on top of his back and you kinda see the entrance.

He was quartering to me hard with his head down. I put it between the left shoulder and the center line which I figured would have been a center chest exit...and it was.


Id never have taken such a shot if I wasn't confident in the setup. That's a mess of bone to get through before getting into the chest cavity. Impact was so hard the lighter nock backed out slightly and shut off.


He trotted 40yds and did the ole circle flop. The ground stopped the arrow...he took it with him and it eventually pulled out before he fell.



I actually shopped for a bow with a heavier setup in mind. I don't like pulling a ton of weight...I like a longer brace and ATA. I don't have super long arms. I'm shooting a Bowtech Insanity CPXL. The IBO is like 340 or something. Speed doesn't kill. But I do enjoy target shooting and extended ranges.
 

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My current set up has me at ~25% FOC ... I have a 300 gr insert and a 150 gr vpa head. My 3 pin set up changed a good bit due to the heavier arrows.
 

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The broadhead is crazy important. You could probably get by without going to a single bevel by running a Magnus or something. Sturdy cut on contact and no crazy cut widths or anything.


When I first went to this arrow, I didn't think it was going to be stopped by a whitetail.

I decided to continue to run Grizztricks. 1 1/4" 4 blade.

I had a buck come in. I was 6-8ft high and he was within 10yds. He was working a scrape basically on the opposite side of an apple tree from me.

I don't know what happened. Maybe he moved as I sent it...maybe I hit an "invisible twig"..I don't know.

Shot was FORWARD of the shoulder but angled back. I got maybe 6-8" of penetration. I couldn't believe he ran off with that much arrow sticking out.

Long story short, I found him bedded in a field 4-6hrs after the shot. His head was swaying and he looked like he was about done. Came back the next morning and he was gone. Instant thought was someone stole him. Nope. He regained his energy and about a month later I got him on a camera.




Cursor is at the entrance. Angled down and back. Guessing it was a single lung stopped by the far shoulder.


Would I have killed him with a single bevel? I don't know. But I'm confident he would have had 2 holes in him.


I've seen slicktricks and grizztricks after encountering bone and it's not pretty. Ribs are fine. Heavy bone and back bone mangles and twists and snaps them and penetration stops. Broadhead and shaft integrity is critical. And they gotta be SHARP. And they gotta fly straight. A 700gr 30% foc arrow that isn't flying true and has some big flimsy blades still isn't going to penetrate well...

After that buck I went to single bevels. I keep a grizztrick in the quiver incase I see a turkey or coyote in season.




Same exact setup except with a single bevel...that's the exit hole. Buck was a couple yards from the base of my tree.


Come straight up the pocket on top of his back and you kinda see the entrance.

He was quartering to me hard with his head down. I put it between the left shoulder and the center line which I figured would have been a center chest exit...and it was.


Id never have taken such a shot if I wasn't confident in the setup. That's a mess of bone to get through before getting into the chest cavity. Impact was so hard the lighter nock backed out slightly and shut off.


He trotted 40yds and did the ole circle flop. The ground stopped the arrow...he took it with him and it eventually pulled out before he fell.



I actually shopped for a bow with a heavier setup in mind. I don't like pulling a ton of weight...I like a longer brace and ATA. I don't have super long arms. I'm shooting a Bowtech Insanity CPXL. The IBO is like 340 or something. Speed doesn't kill. But I do enjoy target shooting and extended ranges.

Not trying to discredit you but if you hit where that cursor is,you weren't even close to the lungs.I highly doubt two holes would have changed the outcome.
 

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What you see on the Ranch fairy has merit but he's shooting hogs,not deer.I don't believe in super light arrows,especially when used with mechanicals but I want a single pin that's good to as close to 30 yards as I can get.
 

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Dce, your right. It's not close to the lungs. But it was angled into the chest. Where it stopped and what was hit is unknown. Definitely never poked out the far side. Better penetration and 2 holes COULD have made a difference. It wouldn't have taken much more to put his lights out. I didn't have a weapon with me. My buddy shined the field and he was within 50yds of us. A little more blood loss was all it would have taken IMO. Never in my wildest dreams did I think he would have gotten up from that bed. He let 3 of us BS loudly for a half hour before we lot the field up.



Your example is spot on. A perfect shot and good cut on contact will do the trick.


Ranch fairy is shooting pigs. Pigs are built tougher than deer. Watch more of his stuff. These setups aren't for a perfect broadside chest shot that might hit a couple ribs at best. That one and another I lost and one I missed cleanly all due to ducking and spinning when I shot. My bow is as quiet as any I've heard...it's just nature of the whitetail sometimes. It's unpredictable...I've shot several that seemingly never twitched and the arrow hit exactly where I sent it.

Look at some of the blood tracking k9s that keep stats. Recovery is greatly higher when there is an exit.




To each their own on the subject. A guy has to shoot what works for him and he is confident in. That's all there is to it. And some guys shoot more than just deer.

When a 500 pound bear waddles by in season, I wanna put him down. My dad had the scenerio happen this season. He's never had anything stop his crossbow bolt. That bear did though and it was a clean chest shot. Poked out the far side but barely. I was surprised...but I was also surprised at seeing a 500 pound bear. That is an impressive animal.
 

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Again,nobody advocates penetration more than I do.However,it just isn't necessary to use that kind of arrow on deer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Again,nobody advocates penetration more than I do.However,it just isn't necessary to use that kind of arrow on deer.
They are not necessary when a deer is hit perfectly. If your deer don't ever spin, duck or move an inch before the arrow hits them and if your shot never misses the mark, then you're right.

If you spend some time watching the ranch fairy videos, even though he has experimented with some super heavy FOC arrows, most of what he (and many, many others) are preaching is upping the percentage of FOC on your current set up.

This video shows the importance of FOC and not necessarily super heavy weight.:


Some other advantages of a higher FOC....accuracy, forgiveness.

 

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I've watched many of his videos and I don't disagree with the physics.I just don't believe it's necessary for whitetails.I'm fortunate in that I get a pile of DMAP tags every year so I get to shoot a lot of deer.I never weighed my arrows but just calculating gr/" plus components,I'm somewhere around 410gr give or take but I've also shot lighter arrows.My current set up is slinging those ICS hunters at 305 fps with 100gr slick tricks.I've killed probably just over 100 deer with that set up or lighter and I've never not had a complete pass through on a deer,not once.Not every shot has been perfect either.Again,If I were shooting hogs over a feeder,I wouldn't hesitate to go to a much heavier arrow with a coc tip with plenty of FOC.For my purposes and million of other like me,it just isn't necessary.If I'm getting complete penetration 100% of the time,Why not shoot the flattest arrow possible?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I think I'm going to bump up to about 500 + grains by using a 50-75 grain brass insert up front. Nothing ridiculous, but I don't always hit them perfectly. I won't argue with Randy Ulmer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I have to say, I don't have any experience with a high FOC system. I've just been researching and it makes sense to me. The common thread that almost everyone is making is not necessarily heavy arrows, but heavier up front. Seems to help with everything, accuracy and penetration.

It's funny, for a perfect shot (broadside double lung) most any average setup will get good penetration. But if I'm being honest, if I pull a shot or the deer moves prior to the arrow hitting, I want a giant mechanical if I hit from the liver back and I'd want one of those 600 grain extreme FOC single bevel broadhead tipped arrows if I'm into the shoulder area. :surprise2:
 

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A giant mechanical is always more of a hinderance than a benefit.I used to be on a recovery committee for a controlled hunt.I've been on hundreds of recoveries and the majority are gut shots with a slightly less being deer that were hit in the shoulder.On average,deer gut shot with huge mechnicals seem to run further before laying down.Even the ranch fairy will agree with that.Close to half of all gut shot deer that we recovered the next morning were still a live to some degree the next morning and just as many.if not more were hit with big mechanicals.I recall only ever recovering one shoulder hit deer and we had snow and it required a finishing shot hours later.For the most part,a shoulder shot is a flat out miss unless it's at an extreme angle.There's really no vitals behind the humerus or scapula unless you're shooting almost strait down or quartering to you.Hit the guts and it really doesn't matter what's on the end of your arrow.What you do after the shot is far more important.Hit the shoulder on a broadside shot and you're pretty much sol.You either shot above the vitals or in front of them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
You shoot through the shoulder blade at any angle with decent penetration, I'll guarantee a dead dear every single time.
 
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