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Discussion Starter #1
Has anybody noticed that because of CWD we are going into HR mode again. example in 2D one CWD deer just inside 2D and now we have to increase the harvest of a Stable herd. increased harvest in a stable herd is code word for reducing the herd. They are issuing more tags then when we had a lot more deer and were actually in HR mode.
 

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A rose by any other name is still a rose. Call it herd reduction or increasing harvest, it's the same thing. I imagine with a CWD epidemic knocking on our door PA is going to have to reduce the herd or face an epidemic. I expect increased tags numbers and a smaller deer herd will be the norm in PA. As far as I know, at present it is the only method of controlling the spread of CWD.
 

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i believe at one time the PGC had a plan in place for when CWD crossed into PA. it was something like drawing a huge circle around where the CWD deer was found and removing every deer inside of that circle.

gotta give them credit for not doing that, and just increasing tags. reducing the herd numbers happens to be the best way to SLOW the spread. you can not eradicate it, but you can slow it down.
 

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2c went from 31000 to 44000 and there has been no cwd found in that area. It is next to DMA 2 which is showing an increase in CWD.

Woods Walker posted a recent article on controlling CWD on the latest post on the CWD forum. It states that if the area is not overpopulated, there should not be a general reduction in the amount of deer.

The following is a quote from that article stating what should be done:

Once a state fish and wildlife agency finds CWD and determines its geographic area and prevalence — either through a special hunt or testing animals harvested through existing hunts — containment involves the following steps:

Reduce buck-to-doe ratios. Bucks have a higher prevalence of CWD, especially when the disease is first discovered in a deer population. This may be because bucks congregate during the rut and young bucks tend to disperse farther away than does when they leave their mothers.

Harvest hotspots. Given that the prevalence of CWD tends to increase among deer in close proximity to each other, when a hotspot is identified, those deer need to be eliminated.


There are no hotspots in 2c. Killing off so many doe will increase the buck to doe ratio. Maybe if we want to reduce the herd size we should start with the bucks by adding more hunter access to the rut and temporarily removing AR..
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Wisconsin just did a study on mineral sites and for the first time has found a concentration of prions in the wild. I think it was 9 out of 11 sites. Pa should ban food/mineral sites until there is more clarity on HOW CWD is spread. probably should ban deer based scents also.
 

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Has anybody noticed that because of CWD we are going into HR mode again. example in 2D one CWD deer just inside 2D and now we have to increase the harvest of a Stable herd
I find it extremely difficult to believe that anyone who hunts unit 2D at all over the past few years actually thinks that the herd there is only stable. Regardless of what any "report"or statistic says, there is zero doubt in my mind that the 2D herd has been on the rise for several years now. In fact it has risen ever since the BOC started reducing the tags that were being given out before.

This rise in tags this year is nothing more than an adjustment to the allocation that everyone should have seen coming. Honestly, I expected it to come last year and it didn't. It is not driven by CWD. It is simply the proper adjustment that was needed.
 

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A rose by any other name is still a rose. Call it herd reduction or increasing harvest, it's the same thing. I imagine with a CWD epidemic knocking on our door PA is going to have to reduce the herd or face an epidemic. I expect increased tags numbers and a smaller deer herd will be the norm in PA. As far as I know, at present it is the only method of controlling the spread of CWD.
Decreasing the herd size really doesn't control the spread of CWD. It may slow it down a bit. If CWD was an epidemic it would already be spread statewide as it has been here for a while.
 

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Decreasing the herd size really doesn't control the spread of CWD. It may slow it down a bit. If CWD was an epidemic it would already be spread statewide as it has been here for a while.
I never said CWD was at epidemic proportion in PA, merely stated an epidemic was possible. If CWD is present, there is always a strong possibility an epidemic may ensue.

Reducing herd size does indeed slow the spread of the disease. Slowing the spread is a form of control. Hence herd reduction is a form of control. By no means remediation, but mitigation. It is the only known tool , of which I am aware, to somewhat control the spread of the disease.

While herd reduction is not ideal, it's the only thing we have at present to get an early jump on the battle against CWD. Not statewide yet but is spreading every year.

We could just sit back and do nothing and have no deer to hunt in PA in 50 years.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
KUDU 58 it is driven by CWD it is in Rosenberrys Anterless allocation recommendation, i didn't just pull this out of a hat, and by the way he is the one saying that the herd is stable in 2D, which in my area of 2D appears to be correct, a lot of deer but stable over the last 5 yrs or so. He has more data then one man's observation. If what he says is true that 2D has 56 deer/sq mi post season then killing 1 extra antlerless dpsm isn't gonna make a difference.
 

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here is the problem as stated in all the other posts on CWD

CWD is a prion. prions can not be destroyed except by high heat, incineration. that means cooking the meat will not kill the prions.

CWD prions are in the soil and have been recently found to be able to be transferred to plants...think about crops too. corn, soybeans, hay that gets fed to cattle (dairy and beef)

any other deer that do not have CWD come into an infected area and eat grass or crops that have the CWD prion in it can be infected with CWD. reduction of the herd will only slow it down not remove it. once in an area it is there for YEARS and YEARS in the soil.

so far it has not been known to mutate to cross the barrier from deer to humans...but will it. or has it, but they have not identified it or found the connection as causing dementia or Alzheimer yet ??

CWD is fatal. get the deer tested. the CDC says DO NOT EAT any deer that tests positive for CWD as they are not sure if it can be transmitted to humans as no one has tested positive for it YET. to mean this means they are expecting CWD to make the jump across that barrier into humans. if that happens, what will we eat ? CWD prions can transmit to plants as i said above. they are most likely already in our food chain and in the market, in the food we already buy.

who knows
 

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I never said CWD was at epidemic proportion in PA, merely stated an epidemic was possible. If CWD is present, there is always a strong possibility an epidemic may ensue.

Reducing herd size does indeed slow the spread of the disease. Slowing the spread is a form of control. Hence herd reduction is a form of control. By no means remediation, but mitigation. It is the only known tool , of which I am aware, to somewhat control the spread of the disease.

While herd reduction is not ideal, it's the only thing we have at present to get an early jump on the battle against CWD. Not statewide yet but is spreading every year.

We could just sit back and do nothing and have no deer to hunt in PA in 50 years.
The disease would have to change in order to be epidemic. It just isn't that high contagious or transmittable. If it was it would be statewide. Eventually unless research comes up with a remedy, it will be statewide.

As far as having no deer to hunt in 50 years, CWD has been in other states for alot longer than that and it hasn't had a significant impact on the population.
 

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. If what he says is true that 2D has 56 deer/sq mi post season then killing 1 extra antlerless dpsm isn't gonna make a difference.


If that is the dpsm post season, then killing an extra 10 per sq mile won't make a difference either. So why all the fuss about a few extra tags???
 

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But okay, I'll play along anyway. If we look at those same numbers. And again this is PGC info from the whitetailed deer page, we find that:


1.) The fawn to doe ratio is declining in 2D.
2.) The buck harvest in 2D has increased by 3,299 animals in the past 4 years. As we know buck harvest is one of the leading indicators of herd size in any given unit.
3.) There has been an increase in the doe harvest each of the past three years in 2D with similar antlerless license allocations. Again indicative of a growing herd.
4.) The deer population estimate in 2D has gone from 110,000 to 140,000 over the past 4 years.


All of this has come about as a result of those decreased license allocations by the BOC that I mentioned. Even last year, a higher allocation was recommended but the BOC went with the lower number of 55,000.


I didn't pull my response out of my rear end either. And the PGC's own printed numbers back up my assertion of a growing herd.
Nobody should be surprised in the least by an increased allocation in unit 2D. And nobody who hunts 2D should have the least amount of trouble finding deer to harvest, even after this allocation. Heck, we are pretty much at pre-HR deer populations in 2D right now. An increase of 8,000 tags is a joke to get upset about.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I never said you pulled your numbers out of your rear end but you insinuated I did,. Where did I say I was upset about 8000 extra tags? To go from 112k post population to 140k post population with the amount of tags issued in one yr is pretty much a mathematical impossibility. Did somebody kill all the coyotes and bears?
 

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The game commission should of never left people start farming deer.They no longer have control but they left it get started.Deer are not a farm animal and should of been left in the woods.Nothing you can do to turn back time and now the deer have to pay for the game commissions way of managing them.Sorry JMO.
 

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I never said you pulled your numbers out of your rear end but you insinuated I did,. Where did I say I was upset about 8000 extra tags? To go from 112k post population to 140k post population with the amount of tags issued in one yr is pretty much a mathematical impossibility. Did somebody kill all the coyotes and bears?
The number of tags issued should not even be in the mathematical equation. How much did the antlerless harvest increase or decrease. If you want to use the number of tags issued you have to be sure the ratio of filled tags remains the same. What matters is how many of the tags get filled each year. Waugh!
 
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