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hey guys im a newbie with the smoke pole and I love the traditional things so I got a T/C hawkens flintlock and I got hodgdons pyrodex rs for the main charge and 3f goex for the pan I was wondering will the 3f work for the pan cause I have a friend who keeps saying you want the finest you can get and he says you can crush it a little more in a medicine bowl but I know a little bit about black powder and really like my hands so I figured ill get opinions before I do anything and any info about the hawkens and charges and this will be helpful thanks guys
 

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The others are right...pyrodex and black powder substitutes MIGHT work...sometimes...but you will likely not get the performance and speed of real black powder...goes, swiss, schuetzen etc...

2 or 3f in the barrel...4fg if perfered in the pan though some use 3f and seem to do fine...


Can't help with grinding it...i can't speak for its safety...but I know a guy that does it...its pretty much powder...never used it...can't speak for if it works any better or not....
 

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I use 100 grains of 2f triple 7 for the charge and 4f goex in the pan. You guys are saying I would get better performance if I switched to straight black powder? If so, how many grains?
 

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The above info is correct, i use ffg as the barrel charge and ffffg in pan. I tried tripple7 a few years back and expierienced terrible hangfires with it.

Flints were made for "real" black powder in my opinion, and thus this is all i use.
 

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So what are the advertised advantages of substitutes like triple 7? Why do they exist?

I thought they were cleaner and caused less barrel fouling, I assume this is not the case?
 

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BP substitutes require more temperature to ignite them compared to blackpowder. Somewhere around 400 more degrees, maybe others can help with the technical aspect. With a flintlock you have a pan which flashes into a touchhole. A percussion cap, musket cap, or a shotgun primer, are alot hotter than fff or ffff and can ignite these substitutes easier. It can work in a flintlock but you can get into headaches, like with a patent breech etc.. also they may be easier to clean per say,water works fine for bp so i dont see how its easier, but are more corrosive to metal than regular bp. Some use a helper charge of ffff like 5 or ten grains than load the substitute so it helps with ignition, but that seems like alot of fuss. Its whatever you wanna deal with. If you don't like bp and want to use 777 than by all means do what you want but be prepared to deal with other problems and factors.
 

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don't laugh cuz I've never mess with black powder. would this be a thought, mix you fine black powder with an oxidizer like hydrogen peroxide to make a super powder for the pan. would it light extreamly well and burn hot and fast
 

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i used fffg for many years in pan and barrel.. never an issue.. but recently got a can of ffffg free so i will use this in the pan now...
 

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Yes they are cleaner with less fouling, some even advertise water clean up. But i think that most flintlocks just do not have hot enough ignition as say a 209 shotgun primer. I believe alot of these powders were wer invented with inline hunters in mind.
 

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EVERY POWDER after real BP was invented for inline use as far as I'm concerned, though their are a FEW that will pass in a flinter. About the ONLY BP sub I have found that even comes close to real BP ignition temps and burn characteristics id the Shockey gold powder. I have run it in all my flinters and it has a MUCH LOWERignition temp than 777 (should never see the inside of a flinter imo) and pyrodex (same thing). Both those powders are the LAST ones you want to pour down your barrel if you can absolutely help it. Either real BP or the shockey's is all I'll use-in that order. My .54 loves the FFG and my .50s like the either FFG or FFFG and for pan powder-real BP FFFg or FFFFG will work. Key is to not over fill and to try to keep your powder stacked to the outside of the pan or level in the pan.
 

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That IS a bit low imo, but you wouldn't want to go too much heavier as the finer the powder, the less you need to use. I've run up to 80 grains of FFFG and found it didn't all burn and didn't pick up anything as far as velocity, in fact actually the return LOWERED the higher the charge I ran. Usually about 60-70 grains max is good with FFFG I've found.
 

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I would like to thank you joe for telling me this ,I just got done shooting my great plains and I was shooting 90 gr. of 3 fff and was getting tar everytime I swabbed the barrel ,backed it down to 70 gr and just like scinence ,it worked wonders ,no more tar ,and much better accuracy and I mean much better,i always thought more was better ,thank you again and merry Christmas ,coming to Houston hill tomorrow morning
 

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comblockshooter said:
don't laugh cuz I've never mess with black powder. would this be a thought, mix you fine black powder with an oxidizer like hydrogen peroxide to make a super powder for the pan. would it light extreamly well and burn hot and fast
Not sure what mixing sulfer, potassium nitrate (salt peter) and charcoal with hydrogen peroxide will result with, but do you really want a "super flash" in front of your face?

For me, a couple or three grains of 4Fg is plenty of flash, as long as it ignites the main charge reliably and fairly quick!
 
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