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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I really feel for some of you in other parts of the state who are having a tough time but here in the SE part of Crawford County I've seen excellent deer numbers spotting and hunting and I can't even count the number of quality buck I've seen spotting, hunting and on trail cameras.


One thing I believe may have contributed to the healthy deer numbers in ym area is the amount of timbering done in the past couple years. I know that having a timber stand improvement and adding a couple 1-2 acre clear cuts on my property has helped significantly.

I know some of you are losing faith but I believe I'm not the only one seeing healthy deer numbers and it may be as simple as habitat changes. If you have your own land, I'd highly recommend some clear cuts or hinge cuts. I read somewhere that one acre of mature woods provides around 200 lbs of hard mast per acre. A clear cut will provide around 2500 lbs per acre in fresh new browse and foliage. A food plot will be somewhere around 4500 lbs per acre of food. Add in the benefits of cover and a clear cut might really help some of your woods.


Just want some of you frustrated fellas out there to know there's hope.
 

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I really truly hope everyone who is whining and complaining sees this post. You want more deer, improve the habitat and they will come. Period. There is a ton of hope, but it all starts with those individuals who aren't seeing anything. Whining and complaining here on the internet isn't going to change it. The PGC cant come and fix your wide open properties with no undergrowth, no browse, and mast that disappears in a heartbeat. Dont complain, so something. Step up and make a change, whether its on the property you're hunting, or by hunting somewhere new. Talk to your neighbors, the property owners, and everyone else you can get in touch with, and start something. It wont change until you change it.
 

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i mean i agree having habitat will help a deer herd, but when the numbers are low (in areas) how the heck are they gonna "come"? where are they coming from? Basically in a nut shell, i hunt a property thats most likely 400 acres combine..good habitat. BAD WMU.(2B) deer ARENT there. why is that shootbowtech? CUZ IT GETS ABUSED....they aren't magically appearing...

why you ask why i hunt there? i've hunted it all my life, still see nice bucks from time to time, old habits?...
i do not shoot does off this area, i know people that will, and do...and then say " there arent as many..and its getting worse" i dont care what anyone says, PA still gets hunted a lot. Even with the decline of sales...

other than my little rant, deer numbers in my areas, except 2b, were overall, stable to maybe a slight decrease, i cant speak for "marking" every deer without being repeats, i mean what im saying is if i hunt and see a group of five and then the next day i see a group of five, i dont think its different deer..
 

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"timbering done in the past couple years"

At some point, all hunting areas need some timbering. Show me a place of wall to wall trees, that hasn't been timbered in some thirty years, and you'll see less deer per square mile.
 

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Pepsi's Dad said:
I wouldn't mind kicking in a couple of more bucks for SGL habitat improvement ,The State can make money getting some of those woods professionally logged .
Are they behind on the 1% per year timbering plan?...yes. Too many deer? Market economics? They have timber here that hasn't been cut in 100 years..

I will give them praise, they timbered here all summer and were taking out about 2 1/2 tractor trailer loads per day all summer long..just finishing before the hunting season. The amount of acreage looks like a timble full compared to what they have altogether. At least it's a start. I hope they don't stop now...get caught up with the timber plan.

I was in one of these cuts the last few days, and the amount of oak seedings present is impressive.
 

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Come one come all, everyone grab your chainsaws and head to the public. Some of us werent served up 50 acres on a silver spoon.

If you think a guy my age can just run out and buy a piece of land sizable enough to make a difference in habitat work then you are living in a fairy tale. Land isnt cheap and most of it is impossible to finance without a sizeable chunk of money for a down payment.

Some of you guys will just never get it, you live in camps nicer than the average peoples homes for a week out of the year. Jump in the truck and head to remote parts of the country and not even have a hiccup in tossing down a couple grand to do so. Reality is, most of us dont live like that so we dont have the option of going out and making the habitat better. You plant or cut anything on game lands you can expect a fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I remember reading where the carrying capacity was about 5 deer per mile(640 acres) in a mature aspen/conifer forest. A clearcut was in the 25 -30 deer per square mile range.




I'm sure the carrying capacity of oak forests is much higher but do not now the numbers. I have seen where the PGC has gone into an area and clearcut all trees except oak to improve habit.
 

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shootbowtech said:
I really truly hope everyone who is whining and complaining sees this post. You want more deer, improve the habitat and they will come. Period. There is a ton of hope, but it all starts with those individuals who aren't seeing anything. Whining and complaining here on the internet isn't going to change it. The PGC cant come and fix your wide open properties with no undergrowth, no browse, and mast that disappears in a heartbeat. Dont complain, so something. Step up and make a change, whether its on the property you're hunting, or by hunting somewhere new. Talk to your neighbors, the property owners, and everyone else you can get in touch with, and start something. It wont change until you change it.
i am usually in agreeance with you, but what do you want people to do? go start cutting timber on SGLs? not every person in PA is going to be able to get permission to hunt good private land and if they did, you would have the same issues that are happening on public. i have private land (that i chooses not to hunt much)to hunt and i also hunt public, so dont think me as someone that isnt seeing deer. not sure why everyone cant understand that not all hunters are going to have the same priveleges. i also understand that some hunters are just going to get the shaft. they either ddont have the money to drive to new areas and they might not have the time. thats just how its going to be. the rants are getting old on here, and there are more and more rant posts every year, but at one point people will have to believe there may be some truth to SOME of those posts. how about EVERYONE get out there and do something.....invite some of the people that are having issues seeing deer to go hunting with you once or twice. I have offered a few times in the past years to take people with me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
jlh42581 said:
Come one come all, everyone grab your chainsaws and head to the public. Some of us werent served up 50 acres on a silver spoon.
......

I don't think that's fair. My wife and I were enlisted in the AF back in 92 - 98' and it was a real struggle saving up enough money to buy some land but we did as I'm sure there are many other folks out there who passed on new vehicles and expensive toys to save for their land.


I know some of you fellas are in high cost areas and I do feel for you.
 

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Gentlemen,
No don't grab your chain saw and head out to the SGL or SFL, you can however contact Eric Miller in the PGC and
put pressure on the PGC to do more timbering, especially in the eastern part of the state, we as hunters have not exerted the political pressure on the PGC required for them to act on our behalf, it seems we as hunter have forgotten that politics rules here in Pa.

As far as being born with a silver spoon & 50 acres, forget the class envy crap and earn your own way to what you want in life.
People who own land have earned it usually with hard work on their families part thru many generations, especially here in Pa. There is no free lunch, no matter what Obama tells ya.

rrroae,
Be proud of what you have earned, never feel sorry for those in high cost areas, they a can always move and find another job in a better place to live, this is the United States of America. Many have given their lives so people are free to earn their own way in life.

Pine Creek/Dave
 

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Everyone's experiences are different and can change rapidly. I used to have access to 500 acres of posted land managed by my nephew and we killed an average of 15-20 deer per year, bucks and does combined. The property was sold, new owners put in 7 gas wells and cut the devil out of the timber and hunting there was forbidden. If you are fortunate to have a great place or places good for you and for the rest of us we have to get used to life as it is. Deer numbers will never be allowed to come back like the old days and we must adapt.
 

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Pine-Creek said:
Gentlemen,
No don't grab your chain saw and head out to the SGL or SFL, you can however contact Eric Miller in the PGC and
put pressure on the PGC to do more timbering, especially in the eastern part of the state, we as hunters have not exerted the political pressure on the PGC required for them to act on our behalf, it seems we as hunter have forgotten that politics rules here in Pa.

As far as being born with a silver spoon & 50 acres, forget the class envy crap and earn your own way to what you want in life.
People who own land have earned it usually with hard work on their families part thru many generations, especially here in Pa. There is no free lunch, no matter what Obama tells ya.

rrroae,
Be proud of what you have earned, never feel sorry for those in high cost areas, they a can always move and find another job in a better place to live, this is the United States of America. Many have given their lives so people are free to earn their own way in life.

Pine Creek/Dave
Thankyou for saying exactly what I wanted to say Dave. I may have 40 acres in my family, but I cant tell you the last time I actually deer hunted it. I dont gun hunt, so I dont spend a week at that cabin. I got out and worked my butt off, and put in thousands of hours in the woods yet again this year to be successful. I spent a ton of time trying to find some land to hunt. I made some friends, and networked to do it. Knocked on some doors. Offered meat and my help. It works. I didnt go drop a few grand on an out of state hunt. I went and stayed in Ohio for a week in a $50 a night motel room, which I split with my dad and hunted public land. Total cost, less than $500. Guess what, I put in a ton of time in that state too over the past several years. If you want to make a difference on public land, start making phone calls, start writing letters, sending emails, whatever you have to do to get things done. I live in 2A now, and also hunt 2B. I had no problem finding land to hunt, or deer in either area, as I killed deer in both. If I hadn't killed deer this year, I wouldnt be out blaming it on everyone else. The PGC didnt kill off all the deer in your area...you did. Dont complain that there arent as many hunters in the woods to push deer around. Go HUNT them. Ultimately the blame falls on you, whether you're successful or not. I also understand that you cant have much of an impact on what other hunters do. Maybe try starting a group, or a club, or something with other hunters in your direct area. There are a ton of guys here on HPA that hunt the same public areas. Come to an agreeance with one another not to shoot does for a few years. Just because the PGC is giving out tags, doesn't mean you have to use them. Every little bit makes a big difference. I've been hunting one specific property here in 2A for all of 2 months, and I'm already working with some of the other guys who hunt the property to stay out of each others way, be conservative when it comes to shooting does, and pass on particular bucks we have identified. Not everyone will do it, and theres a ton of guys that hunt this property that I dont know about or haven't met yet, but every hunter who follows that code helps out a little bit and make it that much better. Again, whining and complaining here on the internet isnt going to get you anywhere. If you want to make a difference and start things in the right direction in your area, then step up and make a change.
 

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Wish I could say the same. In our area butler county 2b the hunters have slaughtered the doe . The doe season runs 14 weeks and 6 of those are with a rifle and with unlimited tags you get the idea. 70 percent of the deer we saw were bucks. That beins said I hunted 7 days of the 12 day season and saw a total of 6 deer. The archery season was great saw alot of bucks with very few doe sightings. We harvested 7 bucks during archery and riffle season which is great but I am concerned about the future. I heard that 2b was to be evalurated this coming year and I hope thst the game commission makes changes and makes allegeny county its on management area.
 

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Gamelands in my neck of woods have great habitat. There are just too many hunters for the land we have. In my opinion deer seasons need to be way shorter on gamelands. National forests on the other hand need some cutting.If you really want good deer hunting you better buy land and manage it yourself.
 

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Before you paint with such a wide brush. Keep in mind in some areas in the state good, available spots simply don't exist. Around here I'd challenge anyone particularly some of the egomaniacs here to try and find good hunting land. I pick up new private spots every year. In fact i have two more for next year. however they are all the same, poor cover, no deer. Only good thing my one spot had some massive clearcutting and timbering this year. In two years we will be able to move to another part of the state and I can't wait.

Also it doesn't take a huge amount of land to attract deer, A coworker has 12 acres and it was wide open. He asked me what to do, I told him to cut every tree down that wasn't an oak or beech tree and when it grew up thick mow paths all over it. That was 7 years ago and his place is now a hotspot, I can't hunt there its for family members, That place is walking distance to where I hunt and his place has big buck galore on it, they shoot 3 or 4 boomers on it every year. For where i hunt its an event to see a button buck. Remember that's 12 acres!!
 

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Yeah silver spoon envy doesn't apply to me either, I spent my time in the service and college and bought my land with my own money. I have never seen vegas or disney, much less been on a big hunting trip out west either. My land is paid for and I'm the dude who did it. If you can't afford it, look at how you spend your money and spend less time worrying about what others have and more time increasing what you have.
 
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