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Forestman3 said:
What a joke.
Why? I learned a few things I didn't know, and understand they are trying to proceed with caution. Did you even bother to watch the video?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The GC has spent $500,000 on monitoring this disease. Hunter money.

The lead agency, Pennsylvania Department of Ag has spent $100,000.

Why is Ag in the lead on this?

Why do they seem to have a hands off, low priority on this?

Why do they provide precious little information to the public on this?

Finally, why do they classify deer that escape as "free range / wild" deer after a period of non-capture?


Nearly a week after the announcement of CWD "in the wild" herd, PDA has not updated their site with information to the public:

http://www.agriculture.state.pa.us/porta...pageid=138&


It is far beyond time for the legislature to have hearings on this asking some tough questions on the veracity, honesty, and priority PDA has on CWD.

Further, questions as to their actions and inaction's on both outbreaks need asked. Specifically, why after a month or more, the first outbreak site was not fenced, and ultimately the GC went in and spent hunter dollars to do it.

Then, why they reclassify deer escaped after a non-recapture period. Then the tough question, are each and every deer accounted for on the deer farms in the second outbreak area.
 

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Yea I watched it.I say what a joke because first of all the game commission should of never started letting people put deer in a fence.Deer are a wild animal and not meant to be in a fence.Second of all they knew this was going to happen sooner or later and they still don`t have a plan in order.This whole thing of another agency is just politics.

Heres a few things that should be done imo.All the deer in these fences in the whole state should be killed and buried 6 feet under in the middle of the fence area and the fence should have to stay up for two years.All feeding deer in the wild should be stoped and that includes saltlicks and all.All deer that are killed out of state should be butchered and only the meat and horns with enough skull to hold them together brought across state lines.

Will any of this happen?No.Will we wish they would of taken drastic measures like this in the future?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Chronic Wasting Disease Quarantined & Revoked Quarantined
Deer Farms

http://www.agriculture.state.pa.us/porta...edLocations.pdf



Look at these these locations on a map:

4794 Trimers Rd, Alexandria, PA,

694 Johnstown Road, East Freedom, PA

190 Nelson Lane, East Freedom, PA



Marked on a map:

http://mapq.st/15zF8l0


Then compare the locations to the map displayed at Monday's CWD Press conference:





The results are interesting. Though not conclusive or proven. But it does again raise the issue of very close proximity of deer farms to the outbreak harvest areas.


This is why the questions on the reclassification of captive deer to wild deer by PDA is so troublesome. More, the reluctance or refusal of PDA to answer questions on 100% accountability of captive deer on deer farms, not just in this outbreak area, but anywhere.
 

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CWD is NOT transferable to humans. The Dept. of AG sees it as non threatning to humans therfore it is very low on there priority. If it where transferable to humans then it would be placed higher on their list. It is explained very well in the latest deerfarming paper. Q&A with the Dept. of AG.
 

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Forestman3 said:
Yea I watched it.I say what a joke because first of all the game commission should of never started letting people put deer in a fence.Deer are a wild animal and not meant to be in a fence.Second of all they knew this was going to happen sooner or later and they still don`t have a plan in order.This whole thing of another agency is just politics.

Heres a few things that should be done imo.All the deer in these fences in the whole state should be killed and buried 6 feet under in the middle of the fence area and the fence should have to stay up for two years.All feeding deer in the wild should be stoped and that includes saltlicks and all.All deer that are killed out of state should be butchered and only the meat and horns with enough skull to hold them together brought across state lines.

Will any of this happen?No.Will we wish they would of taken drastic measures like this in the future?
The farming of wildlife is widespread and is a much needed resource for today's growing population and dwindling natural resources. Everything from oysters, to salmon to bison, deer, pheasants, talapia etc..... The key here is enough oversight amd regulation to ensure that disease is not spread to wild populations or the public.
 

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dce said:
Deer are not a dwindling natural resource.
True. Point is the farming of wildlife is widespread with those products being used and/or consumed by our earth's population. Farm raised venison is a viable commodity as are leather goods from farm raised deer.

There are some among our peoples that wish to see all farming of animals eliminated, not just wildlife farming. Many livelihoods are at stake along with the supply of products the consumers demand.

Their have been outbreaks of disease among many farmed species. There will be more as well. We shut down deer farming and the precedent is set to shut down, bison, elk, fox, mink, oysters, salmon and everything else.

Oversight and regulation is the key.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I agree with most of that.

The difference is deer farming is done without the oversight of most other farming of livestock. I should perhaps say rigorous oversight. That evident by the mad scramble of PDA (PA Depart Ag) to verify and trace these animals.

That was of course complicated by the deer farmers association lobbying the PA legislators to place them under PDA to get away from the heavy hand of the GC. The GC who was requiring them to ... document the comings and goings of every animal, to properly fence them, and to account and test for every death of an animal.

There was a very real reason the effort to get that change was made. It wasn't due to the stringent oversight PDA was going to do. No, they wanted the change to get out from under the thumb of the agency that was making them toe the line.


The legislatures did their bidding. A pretty good feat considering that about 200 bills a year get passed into law a year. That made the transfer a political priority...

Why was that?

In the end of the analysis , however this plays out. It is very clear that CWD has once again been found in very close proximetery to deer farms.

Once again, PDA has gone silent on the incident. The website is still not updated.

If it were not for the GC, no one would know.

At some point the PDA clubhouse has to have the doors removed to allow the sunshine of responsibility and truth to shine in. Now they might be as pure as the driven snow. But in the last incident, and now this one, they seem to be protecting and stonewalling rather than doing the role as the Lead Agency in the CWD response plan.

Right now, all this smells bad. Worse, the agency that is suppose to be taking direction from PDA as an associate agency... is leading by default. Sportsmen are paying for this rather then the agency responsible for it.

Anyway you cut it, sportsmen are getting the short straw on this. Heck, Ag isn't even throwing their ample supply of manure at us this time. Total silence......


look at the map from Mondays press conference and the link for the locations of the deer farms in the area. I wasn't born yesterday, and though an assumption, I will assign blame for a known and consistent source of CWD outbreak.

PDA has a lot of explaining to do, including accounting for each and every animal on the farm over the last three years... including the escaped ones, that are re-classified as free range (wild) if not captured.

Don't look for that to be released any time soon.....
 

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That's my point Bluetick. I think we are on the same page. Stronger over site of all game farming operations is the key. Not shutting them down.

I don't blame the game farms as much as some. With most business owners, due to costs any other factors, most do the minimum required to remain within the law. Some walk that edge. Sure, the farms could have taken extra steps on the own to prevent escapes and wild deer from approaching the fences, but the reality is, few industries go above and beyond when the bottom line is most important.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Likely go with the monitoring and surveillance as they did in Adams county last season. But in both locations.

Nothing has shown up in Adams County from last years testing, but several factors make continued surveillance prudent.

If anyone recalls, there was another farm that had escaped deer due to "someone letting them lose". Last I heard, not all deer from that facility were recaptured and would now be re-designated wild deer. More testing via the standard program should happen there.

The lead agency in the CWD response plan should be bearing the costs of this enhanced and stepped up monitoring as well. Unlikely, it will happen, but they should be responsible for anything beyond the standard testing.

At this point, we know for sure, the Adams County outbreak was from a farm under their jurisdiction. They are responsible - but yet get a pass.
 

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Your looking for someone to blame.It doesn`t matter anymore where past that.We have CWD in the wild herd.What is monitering going to do but tell you what we allready know?I`m asking what you would do to stop it as much as possible.
 

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Forestman3 said:
Your looking for someone to blame.It doesn`t matter anymore where past that.We have CWD in the wild herd.What is monitering going to do but tell you what we allready know?I`m asking what you would do to stop it as much as possible.
You are correct that CWD is now here in our wild herd but that still doesn’t negate the fact that the FIRST step still needs to be to make Department of Ag. accountable and to start taking responsibility for getting their cervid farmers under control and into reasonable compliance with the law or at least some level of common sense.

We presently have CWD in a who knows how many cervid farms and in a couple areas of the wild herd. At this point I still highly suspect the CWD in the wild herd is the result of the DPA failure to regulate their cervid farmers and not knowing or even caring when one of their deer farmers lost of released their stinking tame and possibly diseased deer.

I know for a fact that one of the local deer people got a couple deer from a deer farm that is within the CWD area. I also know for a fact that at least one of these deer got released into the wild. I know for a fact that DPA was notified of it and elected to do absolutely nothing to correct the problem of to force the guy to correct his problems since he no longer had the deer.

Is it any wander that we have CWD when these people were allowed to get deer, move them all over the state, have them escape or even release them into the wild and then have DPA do NOTHING to hold them accountable.

The FIRST thing DPA needs to do at this point, in order to prevent wide spread CWD cases, is get control of their cervid farmers, find out exactly how many deer they have, where everyone of them came from and then monitor exactly what happens with each of those deer in the future. Any cervid farmer who can’t account for the whereabouts of every one of their deer in the future should be shut down and fined for each missing deer.

I highly suspect we are going to learn that a lot more of these deer farmers had their deer escape into the wild and that as a result we are going to see CWD showing up in a lot more those areas where suddenly the cervid farmers can’t account for where their deer went.

Dick Bodenhorn
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Forestman3 said:
Your looking for someone to blame.It doesn`t matter anymore where past that.We have CWD in the wild herd.What is monitering going to do but tell you what we allready know?I`m asking what you would do to stop it as much as possible.

No I am being pragmatic about it. Black and white, right and wrong.

I agree with what Dick said above. Been saying that since the first outbreak. Except now, we know just how inept PDA really is.

The analogy of PDA and Ag folks being in a club and watching out for each other really does seem to be what is happening.

Tomorrow is a full week since the announcement of the second outbreak. Even complaining about the lack of public acknowledgement on this and other MB's - known to be monitored by PDA... no CWD update to their site.

Take a look:

http://www.agriculture.state.pa.us/porta...pageid=138&



Now you can say I want someone to blame. No. At least in the first case, we have the cause - commercial deer farming.

In the second, the official jury is still out, but... take a good look at those maps I posted earlier and it is shaping up strongly to be a repeat performance. The GC map even provides a distance scale more or less with the distance arrows from the MD border and the first CWD sites. Comparing the press conference map to the farm location map is.. enlightening.

Meanwhile, PDA still hasn't locked down the industry until real controls and record keeping are in place. They can still transport deer about anywhere they want in or out or within the state. Not of course the few farms under quarantine. But... the farms near the current outbreak were quarantined initially then removed.

So my suggestion that monitoring continue in the Adams county DMA continue - good call. They had deer escape into the wild for a week or so. Killed and tested, and found CWD free... we know the incubation period is around 18 months. Pink 23 could have done more harm than anyone else knows as of yet.

Hunters have spent 500K on CWD in the last year. PDA 100k. You tell me who is taking this seriously. Worse, that 500k, if they have to monitor both sites in the coming year that figure goes to a million or better. Hunter dollars right out of the game fund.
 

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Since the DPA has been involved with the deer industry i have had more contact and paperwork to fill out then i ever had with the GC. I no longer raise whitetails but am involved with tranqing whitetails for other farms.
17 years ago when i first got involved with the indusrty the GC was my contact. It was a joke. The GC never stepped foot onto my property even to inspect my fencing before i was permited to have deer. They simply signed off and the permit was aquired. Never once had a WCO on my property. When the DPA got involved i had a local vet signing off of my herd every year and was out 2-3 times a year to inspect the herd. Also a large packet of paperwork was delivered with papers such as CWD herd Certification Program, Herd Inventory, Leaving The Herd, Adding To The Herd, CWD Submission Form. Non of which was required by the GC.
Every deer that died from my herd was submitted to the DPA for CWD Submittal.
The GC is disgruntaled that they no longer control there valuable resource.
Whether the GC or the DPA are in control of the cervid farms CWD would have still been found.
 

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Great post from someone with hands on experence , but i suspect some of the pgc cheerleaders will continue to complain and try to place the blame on the dept of ag.
 
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