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Discussion Starter · #101 ·
First they need to get the quail. Next, the quail we used to have in Pa were a different subspecies than what you find in southern states. So unless these quail come from northern states they are already failing. Quail require intensive habitat management, we know how good they are at that. Add it all up and it will be a complete failure in 5 years, about the same timeframe all but one of the WPRAs failed.
 

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First they need to get the quail. Next, the quail we used to have in Pa were a different subspecies than what you find in southern states. So unless these quail come from northern states they are already failing. Quail require intensive habitat management, we know how good they are at that. Add it all up and it will be a complete failure in 5 years, about the same timeframe all but one of the WPRAs failed.
Has there ever been a positive thought that passed through your head? Or, is your entire life just one big negative after another?

Maybe the quail reintroduction program will be a failure. Who knows? But, unless it is tried the REAL answer to that question will never be known.

There is a real possibility they can establish a quail population even if it is never large enough to sustain hunting. Just returning a once native species to the state, even if we can't hunt it, is worth a shot though for those of us who really care about our wildlife resources.

Dick Bodenhorn
 

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The PGC is about to try stocking quail next,,,,,,,,,, let me look into my crystal ball and guess how that is going to turn out.:rolleyes:
Many meals for coopers hawks, and other predators, with the ending failure being blamed on poor habitat. Even after the habitat was made for the quail.
 

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As for Lostagain, keep on telling the truth, keep being honest, I do not like these guys that tell people what they want to hear and then hope it plays out. Hard to fault a guy if what he says really happened.
 

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I used to do a fair amount of wild quail hunting in the Carolinas back in the mid 1960's when I lived there. I don't see quail habitat anywhere in my area of Pennsylvania. I always wonder how projects like this get started, who comes up with these ideas? I'd have to say that there is about a zero chance of establishing a sustained wild quail population in PA but somebody has a bug in their shorts to try, so here we go again. It's just as likely that the transplanted birds will bring with them some form of parasite or disease that will negatively impact some of our native species. What's next, the Pennsylvania elephant herd, giraffes, California condors?
 

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Discussion Starter · #106 ·
I would love to see quail again in Pa, but why try if there isnt a full commitment. I've seen a bunch of well intentioned projects that ultimately failed. When you read the quail plan it is filled with hopes and prayers. The other big problem will be trying it on federal lands. While they are agreeable right now, that can quickly turn when a different person takes over. It happened with woodcock projects at Bald Eagle SP and Swatara SP. There were also projects started at Fort Indiantown Gap that were eventually abandoned, if I remember correctly, there was talk about a quail restoration project on their property. Why isnt this project being attempted on GL's where the agency has full control.

The plan call for the habitat to be 3 years into creating already, how much has been done, and are they on their schedule?

The first birds are to be brought in in 2022, has the capture states been agreed to, or is this still hope and prayer? Capture and translocate is supposed to happen in the next 3 years, have agreements been signed with the states that will supply the quail? Anyone remember the pheasants that were supposed to be brought in and released and those numbers were never reached?

Call me negative all you want, but to spend $2 million on this project is a pile of money the GC says they dont have. I keep asking key questions for this project and yet no one can give solid answers. Remember we had a pheasant project that failed, a woodcock that never got off the ground, a grouse project that was never implemented, so now we're supposed to believe they will go full out for a new quail project?

And remember what started this thread; the GC said they would increase cutting for ESH habitat to 13,500 acres a year in 2018 and in 2021 only put 7500 acres for bid. A total failure in 3 short years.
 

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The last Bobwhite quail that I saw, was road killed in South Central PA in the mid 1980’s. They were there because the habitat they required was there. I think it would be difficult to re-establish a wiidespread population in their old haunts, so much has changed in southern PA from the 50’s - early 80’s in that part of the state, the farms turned into developments, the use of herbicides reduced diversity, more people, more traffic, more infrastructure to support more people. I see more road killed wildlife than I see killed by hawks, owls, coyotes, fisher, bears, etc. Grouse will likely be a casualty of the increasing human populations wants and needs.
 

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The last Bobwhite quail that I saw, was road killed in South Central PA in the mid 1980’s. They were there because the habitat they required was there. I think it would be difficult to re-establish a wiidespread population in their old haunts, so much has changed in southern PA from the 50’s - early 80’s in that part of the state, the farms turned into developments, the use of herbicides reduced diversity, more people, more traffic, more infrastructure to support more people. I see more road killed wildlife than I see killed by hawks, owls, coyotes, fisher, bears, etc. Grouse will likely be a casualty of the increasing human populations wants and needs.
so true, the farm I grew up on is now a subdivision slash golf course thanks to city water and sewer brought into are township
 

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I used to do a fair amount of wild quail hunting in the Carolinas back in the mid 1960's when I lived there. I don't see quail habitat anywhere in my area of Pennsylvania. I always wonder how projects like this get started, who comes up with these ideas? I'd have to say that there is about a zero chance of establishing a sustained wild quail population in PA but somebody has a bug in their shorts to try, so here we go again. It's just as likely that the transplanted birds will bring with them some form of parasite or disease that will negatively impact some of our native species. What's next, the Pennsylvania elephant herd, giraffes, California condors?
I don't think there will ever be a huntable population of quail in Pennsylvania again. I don't think that was even the primary objective of reintroducing wild quail again.

But, quail are a native wildlife species to our Commonwealth so it would be nice to have at least a few in existence in the state even if we can't hunt them.

Dick Bodenhorn
 

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Discussion Starter · #112 ·
Agreed, but not at the current price tag of $3.5 million!! $2 million by the GC, $1.5 million by the LAD. $450 thousand in three years to bring in wild quail? Really?

I hope when this is all over, we can get an itemized list of expenses so we know how our license money is being spent.
 

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I don't think there will ever be a huntable population of quail in Pennsylvania again. I don't think that was even the primary objective of reintroducing wild quail again.

But, quail are a native wildlife species to our Commonwealth so it would be nice to have at least a few in existence in the state even if we can't hunt them.

Dick Bodenhorn
At one time in history quail were native to Pennsylvania but not the same strain of quail that will be trapped and released, so what's the point? It just seems like a waste of 2 million dollars, money that could be spent on habitat improvement for the native birds we still have today. Using the PGC's quail logic, they won't be interested in going 'all in' on restoring ruffed grouse habitat until the bird is extinct here. Then someday they'll propose a program for grouse similar to the one they are planning for the long gone quail. Not a huntable population of course, just a very small, token population. They'll probably call it something memorable...like the "Lip Service Ruffed Grouse Study".
 

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The last Bobwhite quail that I saw, was road killed in South Central PA in the mid 1980’s. They were there because the habitat they required was there. I think it would be difficult to re-establish a wiidespread population in their old haunts, so much has changed in southern PA from the 50’s - early 80’s in that part of the state, the farms turned into developments, the use of herbicides reduced diversity, more people, more traffic, more infrastructure to support more people. I see more road killed wildlife than I see killed by hawks, owls, coyotes, fisher, bears, etc. Grouse will likely be a casualty of the increasing human populations wants and needs.
That would make sense. You probably travel more on the roads than in the woods.
 

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I saw a big covey of quail in December, and I’m still scratching my head about it. I was checking traps, and driving on a road through a reclaimed coal waste dump. Really thick autumn olives on both sides of me. On the road in front of me, birds were crossing, 11 of them. They were quail.

On this property, about two miles away, there is a non commercial shooting preserve. But I know for certain there weren’t any quail used there this season. A friend of mine raises several hundred every year, and put some out on the preserve grounds late last spring.

Did I see survivor stock from last spring. Don’t know. Normally quail and chukar barely make it more than a week after release, pheasants not much better. They sure looked like established birds when I saw them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #118 ·
We get a lot for $20.97 hunting license, I don't need to no where every little penny is spent, If more money & man power is needed to help save the grouse? Then we need to pony up and pay for a stamp.
Said before and I'll say it again, I'm all for a $25 grouse habitat stamp if:

The pheasant program is self sustaining, something it isnt close to right now.
All the money is used to hire more tree painters.
If the GC fails to meet their goal of 13,500 acres bid out every year, the stamp ends.
 

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and so does your grouse hunting, say they only bid out 10,000 acres but the grouse population is on a rise would you stop buying a stamp because GC didn't meet 13,500 acres, of course not
 
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