The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
14,522 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The Game Commission formally published notice in the November 21 PA Bulletin of a November 4 order establishing a Chronic Wasting Disease Containment Zone Permit for the 2020/21 hunting license year to authorize increased harvest of deer in designated CWD containment zones in addition to existing allocations and bag limits.

For more information on this disease, visit the Game Commission’s Chronic Wasting Disease webpage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,756 Posts
As I said before this disease will continue to spread as long as the animals that spread the disease are protected. This is very one sided. Deer spread CWD, so kill them all. The predators that eat diseased deer also spread it and may travel great distances, where it is spread by their droppings. The approach for them is, if they have fur and are spreading CWD kill them in season. If they are feathered predators, let them spread it, do not harm them, and if they migrate 50 or 100 miles and spread it to deer in a new area, then just kill as many deer as possible again. To stop the spread of CWD you must stop the travel of animals that spread it. A hawk, owl, eagle , buzzard, crow or other feathered bird that feeds on the remains of a CWD deer, will likely have a larger area of travel, till these predators are also greatly reduced in CWD areas, CWD will continue to spread. So far I have been correct with reasoning. One dead deer can spread a lot of CWD, everything that eats it can spread it, through their droppings. On a side note I believe Hawk mountain did receive 250.000 from the state or game commission, so now we can go there to watch the great migration of birds and wonder how many are carrying CWD to an area near you.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,844 Posts
As I said before this disease will continue to spread as long as the animals that spread the disease are protected. This is very one sided. Deer spread CWD, so kill them all. The predators that eat diseased deer also spread it and may travel great distances, where it is spread by their droppings. The approach for them is, if they have fur and are spreading CWD kill them in season. If they are feathered predators, let them spread it, do not harm them, and if they migrate 50 or 100 miles and spread it to deer in a new area, then just kill as many deer as possible again. To stop the spread of CWD you must stop the travel of animals that spread it. A hawk, owl, eagle , buzzard, crow or other feathered bird that feeds on the remains of a CWD deer, will likely have a larger area of travel, till these predators are also greatly reduced in CWD areas, CWD will continue to spread. So far I have been correct with reasoning. One dead deer can spread a lot of CWD, everything that eats it can spread it, through their droppings. On a side note I believe Hawk mountain did receive 250.000 from the state or game commission, so now we can go there to watch the great migration of birds and wonder how many are carrying CWD to an area near you.
Can you provide one shred of evidence that CWD is spread by scavengers?

Dick Bodenhorn
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,756 Posts
Can you provide one shred of evidence that CWD is spread by scavengers?

Dick Bodenhorn
I believe that PChunter1231, just did. Also PA outdoor news from october 23 2020, , it also states that it can be spread from the scat of scavengers. The person that said this was Andrea Korman, the game commission chronic wasting disease action coordinator. Glad we were able to give you some information. Now I am willing to bet that the protected, abundant raptors will be allowed to spread CWD with nothing being done to control their numbers. Just like when raptors reduced small game numbers and nothing was done, I do not think anyone will put the deer and elk and possibly humans above the raptors. No one cares enough to put in place as many things as possible to stop the spread. As long as this continues, it will keep spreading. The kill as many deer as we can method, does not seem to be working. So look in the air at those scavenger birds, hawks and buzzards and others and watch the sight of those spreaders bringing CWD to your area or another. If they think a deer or elk may spread it, they kill the animal, if a hawk or buzzard or other bird may spread it, they protect them. We should manage animals by facts, not anti hunters emotions. Even on this sight ,with all the information we have on the negative impacts of an uncontrolled raptor population many hunters think we should not be able to hunt them. I guess when most of the deer and elk have CWD and are dead or alive and infected, and unfit to eat, we can all go to hawk mountain and watch the scavengers spread CWD. Most of the small game is already gone. Years to come those poor raptors will not have much wild game left to eat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,518 Posts
Can you provide one shred of evidence that CWD is spread by scavengers?

Dick Bodenhorn
Here’s a peer reviewed article stating that the CWD prions are not destroyed in crow feces. This making is very possible that CWD can be spread by avian scavengers

. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.4161/pri.25621

Hopefully a peer reviewed, published article is what you consider a shred of evidence.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
28,721 Posts
If these squadrons of raptors are so good at spreading CWD why hasn't the Federal Government removed the protections that are afforded to raptors?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,756 Posts
They do not care, kind of like why they do not require photo voter ID. A lot of people do not care if a hunter has a deer to kill. And the other thing is many people do not even know it can be spread this way. If CWD was a major concern, you would be able to control raptors, because of their ability to spread it. For now we will ban deer urine and kill more deer in infected areas. Has not worked yet, but of course we can not start killing the poor predators. The Federal government will not control rioters, so why would we believe they would care to stop an animal disease.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,844 Posts
If you actually read and understand what you are reading this is not proof that scavengers spread CWD. It is filled with words such as may, might or could.

Here are some direct quotes from the abstract.

"Here we speculate on the role avian scavengers, like American crows, might play in the spatial dissemination of CWD. We also consider the role mammalian scavengers may play in dispersing prions."

"It seems logical that crows could ingest infectious prion material while scavenging on CWD-contaminated carrion and translocate infectious material in their feces to CWD-free areas."

"These results confirmed passage of PrPRes material through crows gavaged with infected material and suggested that crows can excrete infectious prions; bringing to light a new and potentially important transmission route."

The last quote actually discusses the only thing that this study has proven. The fact that the CWD prions are not killed and still found in the feces of crows or other scavengers shouldn't be any revelation for anyone who understand prions though. Prions are not something that can be killed or removed since it is not a virus, bacteria or living organism. So basically all they have established, at this point, is that prions are still found in the feces of probably anything that eats a CWD infected cervid. That is probably true of human feces from someone who has eaten a CWD infected cervid too.

CWD is a major concern but suggesting that we should kill off anything that has or might have scavenged a CWD infected cervid is not even a logical direction of exploration.

Dick Bodenhorn
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,518 Posts
If you actually read and understand what you are reading this is not proof that scavengers spread CWD. It is filled with words such as may, might or could.

Here are some direct quotes from the abstract.

"Here we speculate on the role avian scavengers, like American crows, might play in the spatial dissemination of CWD. We also consider the role mammalian scavengers may play in dispersing prions."

"It seems logical that crows could ingest infectious prion material while scavenging on CWD-contaminated carrion and translocate infectious material in their feces to CWD-free areas."

"These results confirmed passage of PrPRes material through crows gavaged with infected material and suggested that crows can excrete infectious prions; bringing to light a new and potentially important transmission route."

The last quote actually discusses the only thing that this study has proven. The fact that the CWD prions are not killed and still found in the feces of crows or other scavengers shouldn't be any revelation for anyone who understand prions though. Prions are not something that can be killed or removed since it is not a virus, bacteria or living organism. So basically all they have established, at this point, is that prions are still found in the feces of probably anything that eats a CWD infected cervid. That is probably true of human feces from someone who has eaten a CWD infected cervid too.

CWD is a major concern but suggesting that we should kill off anything that has or might have scavenged a CWD infected cervid is not even a logical direction of exploration.

Dick Bodenhorn
You only read the abstract? Please read the entire article, think logically and form a conclusion based on the facts presented in that article. Live prions in, live prions out. If the Prion is alive, all research shows that the disease can still be spread.

Here is a link for a second article in which coyotes were the point of discussion. This article details how CWD prions can live for three days in the feces of coyotes.


Furthermore, here is a link to the university of Minnesota Center For Infectious Disease Research and Policy referencing the two studies I have shared and stating that predators can and do spread CWD



I will continue to trust the science and professionals on this matter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,105 Posts
I’ll tell you, I sure as heck hope CWD can’t be spread by birds. I would think though, if they could, we would have seen the entire deer heard in PA as a whole become CWD positive by now, right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,633 Posts
Any bird could carry the prions on dirt or mud on thier feet. I have been saying this for years. My warden didn't want to hear this when I called to report an emaciated dead deer on my place. "There is no CWD in Armstong county" was his reply. He didn't even want to see the deer. Glad he retired, so are the rest of the commission.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SuperX2Nut

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,844 Posts
You only read the abstract? Please read the entire article, think logically and form a conclusion based on the facts presented in that article. Live prions in, live prions out. If the Prion is alive, all research shows that the disease can still be spread.

Here is a link for a second article in which coyotes were the point of discussion. This article details how CWD prions can live for three days in the feces of coyotes.


Furthermore, here is a link to the university of Minnesota Center For Infectious Disease Research and Policy referencing the two studies I have shared and stating that predators can and do spread CWD



I will continue to trust the science and professionals on this matter.
I did read the ENTIRE report and no where in it does it show ANY research that proved CWD was being spread from migratory birds or mammals scavenging a CWD infested cervid. It proved that CWD prions an be found in feces of scavengers after they have eaten CWD infected cervid parts. That does not mean those prions found in the feces are concentrated enough to spread CWD to other cervids. It certainly is a concern but it is also a long ways from proof of it happening.

It has been known for a long time that prions don't die, can't be killed and exist for a long time where ever they get distributed, including in feces. This isn't some new revelation. But, even though much is still unknown I have yet to see any research that proves CWD is being spread by anything other than other cervids, cervid feces, urine or other other infected body parts from other infected cervids.

Is there reason for concern? Absolutely.

I too will trust the science. But to really understand the science it is important for people to understand both what that science says and what it doesn't say. Many times, during any investigation, and that is what scientific research really is, what isn't said can be just as important as what was said.

Can you find ONE place where any of the research says they have proven that CWD is being spread to other cervids, or any other species, from predators or scavengers? There is without a doubt a lot of speculation about MAYBE. But that is still a long ways from proof of it happening.

Dick Bodenhorn
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,518 Posts
I did read the ENTIRE report and no where in it does it show ANY research that proved CWD was being spread from migratory birds or mammals scavenging a CWD infested cervid. It proved that CWD prions an be found in feces of scavengers after they have eaten CWD infected cervid parts. That does not mean those prions found in the feces are concentrated enough to spread CWD to other cervids. It certainly is a concern but it is also a long ways from proof of it happening.

It has been known for a long time that prions don't die, can't be killed and exist for a long time where ever they get distributed, including in feces. This isn't some new revelation. But, even though much is still unknown I have yet to see any research that proves CWD is being spread by anything other than other cervids, cervid feces, urine or other other infected body parts from other infected cervids.

Is there reason for concern? Absolutely.

I too will trust the science. But to really understand the science it is important for people to understand both what that science says and what it doesn't say. Many times, during any investigation, and that is what scientific research really is, what isn't said can be just as important as what was said.

Can you find ONE place where any of the research says they have proven that CWD is being spread to other cervids, or any other species, from predators or scavengers? There is without a doubt a lot of speculation about MAYBE. But that is still a long ways from proof of it happening.

Dick Bodenhorn
Let’s do this instead. Since I’ve already provided you with three high quality sources, two of which being peer reviewed scientific article, that prove that prions can survive the digestive system and excretion from several animals. How about you provide me with information that says it can’t be spread in this fashion.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,844 Posts
Let’s do this instead. Since I’ve already provided you with three high quality sources, two of which being peer reviewed scientific article, that prove that prions can survive the digestive system and excretion from several animals. How about you provide me with information that says it can’t be spread in this fashion.
No one can, or ever will, say that it can.t happen.

But, that does NOT negate the FACT that so far research has not proven that it has happened or even that it will happen. There are just a lot of maybes filled with speculation that it could happen.

As I have been saying all along, CWD is a MAJOR concern and needs to be take very seriously.

But, I don't think it is a very professional or even a responsible view to be suggesting that we start eliminating predators or scavengers because of a maybe or could happen scenario.

Dick Bodenhorn
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,518 Posts
No one can, or ever will, say that it can.t happen.

But, that does NOT negate the FACT that so far research has not proven that it has happened or even that it will happen. There are just a lot of maybes filled with speculation that it could happen.

As I have been saying all along, CWD is a MAJOR concern and needs to be take very seriously.

But, I don't think it is a very professional or even a responsible view to be suggesting that we start eliminating predators or scavengers because of a maybe or could happen scenario.

Dick Bodenhorn
I don’t think it’s wise to remove predators either because of something that can happen on a very small scale.

However, the information I have provided proves that it can happen, and thus is the “shred of evidence” that you requested.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
28,721 Posts
We're told by a layman that raptors are responsible for shortages of grouse, pheasants, rabbits, muskrats, and every other game bird or animal that seems to be in short supply. DNRs don't seem to agree, nor does the fossil record.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top