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Discussion Starter #1
ok so i'm looking to move up to a bigger fur gun. i'm looking at @ savage in a .223 how is this gun for fur damage? i'll mainly use it for fox and coyote. i want small holes that require little or no sewing as i sell my fur. any thoughts on this. thanks
 

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What are you moving up from? If you find a gun that makes those small holes on fox and is still reliable for coyote let us know, thats the gun everyone wants. I think you'll have to decide if you want a gun that puts small holes in the fox (probably 90%+ of) what youll shoot at, or one that can dump a yote reliably.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
i'm moving up from a .22lr. though it is a great fox gun, it has extremely short range. 50 yrds max.
i've been looking at a .17 rimfire, .22 mag, 22 hornet. yes id say i call in 98% fox. i want something i can reach out to 150/200 yrds
 

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Of the ones you listed my vote would be for the 22 hornet. It can triple the range of the 22 lr and has enough juice to kill a coyote.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
i can handle a 1" hole, i dont want a 2" entrance and a 2"-4" exit. also i plan on using plain solid nose bullets. question is what do you guys use? and what kind of loads do you use and how do they perform for damage wise?
 

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I would stay away from rimfire as most of the ammo is designed to "maximum expansion" upon impact. If you go with a reloadeable centerfire cartridge as lets say .223 Rem. you can get into soft point bullets and other bullets that aren't going to open up or expand as much and still do alot of damage. The 17 centerfires are nice but I have had some yotes get away from me.
 

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If you've got a hankering for a wildcat, might I recommend the 17 Mach IV. I have a Mach IV barrel for my Encore, and I've taken yoters out to 200 yards cleanly. Mild report, no recoil, no exit wounds, and a teeny little hole going in. In fact, the entrance wound can be difficult to find at times.

It's a 221 Fireball case necked down to 17 caliber and the shoulder angle is 38° I think. What a fun little round!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
i know it is hard to believe, but i just got home and laying on the shoulder of the road right next to my mailbox was a rain soaked full box of hornaday 204 ruger shells. maybe a sign? anyone have any thoughts on this caliber. i need somethign that does low fur damage on the fox but still capable of taking out a coyote should i happen to call one in. thanks
 

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If you hit a fox wrong the .204 will literally tear it in half. If you hit them right, tiny hole in, no exit.
 

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Im a big .223 fan, mostly because ammo is somewhat inexpensive, and you can find it anywhere. I used to do a ton of groundhog hunting with mine. Its a great cailber for coyotes too, and you can even find heavy loads that will work for deer. I killed my first buck with a .223. As far as foxes go, I've shot a few with mine, and the exit hole is typically pretty large, but there may be a different load that controls that a bit better. Ive heard great things about the .204, .17 mach IV, and the .221 fireball as well. All great calibers, but ammo is going to be a bit more scarce, and of course more expensive as well. If you shoot alot, the .223 might be the way to go.
 

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I shoot a 204... Hornady makes a 45gr sp that makes a pin hole entrance and a pencil size exit I shot 1 red with that bullet and I was very impressed. The vmax on the otherhand will devistate a fox. I shot a grey with one and it put a six in hole in the back. I still use it though its a great gun for anything fur related. It doesnt pass through a coon or coyote. but will takeout the biggest coyote in pa no question.
 

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But like the other guy said it can blow them up.. The shell casing holds more gun powder than a 223 round it is actually longer, and at that it is very loud. But thats what you should get the ammo is always avilible 223 not so much anymore.
 

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Borden811 said:
If you hit a fox wrong the .204 will literally tear it in half. If you hit them right, tiny hole in, no exit.
Please explain your definition of right and wrong. I posted about this a couple years ago. A few more fox have fallen since. Every one with similar results. Winchester Super-X 34 grain hollow points did this.



The only valid answer to this conundrum for the one-gun shooter is reloading, especially for the likes of the 204 because I haven't found any FMJ loads commercially. Heck, I don't even know if anyone makes 204 FMJs.

If you want to get a 204 and you don't want to reload, then use the 22 on fox and the the 204 on coyotes and chucks. That's why I added a 22 WMR to the safe this past year, for Fox.
 

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I use a .17 Fireball (the commercial version of the original Mach IV wildcat cartridge) for both fox and coyote with great results and little holes. Also a great groundhog gun. You do have to be somewhat selective with coyote shots taking good shots at the vitals. The down side is that, unless you reload, ammo is expensive. Of the cartridges you list, the .22 Hornet would be a great choice out to 150 yds IMHO. If you're hunting almost all fox, you might wait and take a look at the new .22 Winchester Super Magnum rimfire cartridge that is due out (along with a Savage rifle) in the next few weeks. I don't see it as a good coyote round. Projected cost of ammo is under $18 for a box of 50 and it promises to be a significantly better round than the .17 HMR. Google it to check out the forecast for it.
 

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basdjs said:
I use a .17 Fireball (the commercial version of the original Mach IV wildcat cartridge) for both fox and coyote with great results and little holes. Also a great groundhog gun. You do have to be somewhat selective with coyote shots taking good shots at the vitals. The down side is that, unless you reload, ammo is expensive. Of the cartridges you list, the .22 Hornet would be a great choice out to 150 yds IMHO. If you're hunting almost all fox, you might wait and take a look at the new .22 Winchester Super Magnum rimfire cartridge that is due out (along with a Savage rifle) in the next few weeks. I don't see it as a good coyote round. Projected cost of ammo is under $18 for a box of 50 and it promises to be a significantly better round than the .17 HMR. Google it to check out the forecast for it.
Not to put words in your mouth, I think you meant the 17 Win Super Mag, which does seem to have promise for a nice fox gun and a light yote gun. That, the 22 Hornet, new 17 Hornady Hornet, 17 Fireball and the 221 Fireball all meet the criteria, or if you reload any of them, or a 222 or 223 loaded down should do nicely. In reviewing what others have done in this ideal fox/yote caliber search, keeping the speed down is essential for the fox part, and will do in a pinch on yotes with good bullet placement.

Don't forget how good a 12 gauge with a good pattern of #2 birdshot, BB's, BBB's, B's, T's, F's, #4 buckshot, etc. is is!
 

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PeteMacMahon said:
Borden811 said:
If you hit a fox wrong the .204 will literally tear it in half. If you hit them right, tiny hole in, no exit.
Please explain your definition of right and wrong. I posted about this a couple years ago. A few more fox have fallen since. Every one with similar results. Winchester Super-X 34 grain hollow points did this.



The only valid answer to this conundrum for the one-gun shooter is reloading, especially for the likes of the 204 because I haven't found any FMJ loads commercially. Heck, I don't even know if anyone makes 204 FMJs.

If you want to get a 204 and you don't want to reload, then use the 22 on fox and the the 204 on coyotes and chucks. That's why I added a 22 WMR to the safe this past year, for Fox.
 
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