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If you are opposed to the Saturday opener for deer based on it messing up "tradition" at camps, I have a question for you....Why would anything have to change for you? Camp owners could still keep doing things the way they always did, since the season is open on the first Monday. Why don't camp groups do their scouting, shopping, scouting, socializing and drinking as they always have (presumably Friday through Sunday) and then hunt on Monday?
 

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Camp owners could still keep doing things the way they always did, since the season is open on the first Monday.

I've said before... when the dumb move first came to light. THE FIRST DAY is the magical day. Nobody gathers around the (insert your favorite hangout here), and says "Hey Petey, where you gonna be on the SECOND DAY". Too much dismissal of that naughty "T" word, what it means to so many people, and what is SHOULD mean to so many more.


By the way, hunting the FIRST day, is as much tradition as one can get. Same as simply discussing the FIRST day. It's why you hear guys say, "I haven't missed an opener in 50 years". Or "The only time I missed an opener in 60 years, was when my favorite uncle, Sam, sent me to Southeast Asia on a trip".
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'm not dismissing tradition. I just don't understand why it has to change based on what day of the season it is. Why is the first day "magical"? They all seem pretty good to me.
 

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I can only define the first day as this:

It's the ONLY day a lot of guys see deer that are NOT PRESSURED.

That's where the magic is. It's also fact that 30-40% of all bucks killed during rifle season are killed on the very first day. Yes I understand participation plays a big part of that number, but equally, I think hunting pressure does or lack there of as well..
 

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Are we really doing this again? I mean I totally understand guys wanted to hunt the first day and not sitting on the sidelines until Monday.

It was weird this year, but I liked it. Got a squirrel hunt in Friday morning, got to camp, had a few cold ones, and woke up Saturday and it was the season. No sitting around waiting for the next two days. But the camp I go to is a little different, it's used year round and is 30 minutes from where most of the family lives. A majority of us there were tagged out from archery and just living the camp life.

Regardless, if as the statistics I've seen show, less than 25% hunt from a camp, that alone significantly weakens the argument to begin with.
 

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If you are opposed to the Saturday opener for deer based on it messing up "tradition" at camps, I have a question for you....Why would anything have to change for you? Camp owners could still keep doing things the way they always did, since the season is open on the first Monday. Why don't camp groups do their scouting, shopping, scouting, socializing and drinking as they always have (presumably Friday through Sunday) and then hunt on Monday?

If the first day was not the day everyone wants to hunt they wouldn't have moved it in the first place now would they? Suggesting people miss it when they can hunt it is truly an idiotic statement, so tired of hearing guys say this. If all the days are good why didn't they just add another day at the end for all those who missed the opener? Makes just as much sense as what you are spouting.



I'm not calling you an idiot, but that is a stupid thing for anyone to say, it's like saying the land isn't posted so you can hunt there, really?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
So, the traditional guys have no problem keeping things as they were, depriving college kids and people whose work schedule didn't allow them to hunt on the first day. Yet, they could still keep their tradition, but they didn't want JUST that, they wanted the first day too? Sounds kind of selfish to me. A kid in college cant hunt the first day unless it is Saturday. Traditionalists can do exactly what they've always done, regardless of when the first day falls. Everyone talks about how much the little stores and businesses in the northern tier would lose if the opener was moved to Saturday. An interesting statistic might be how much bars and beer distributors in the northern tier lost.
 

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Meh... you started a thread to ask WHY for those of us opposed. I give you valid fodder as to why I, and many others are opposed, then you go to the ol' fall-back of "It's all about the booze"....or lack thereof.


To steal from Randy Moss...…. C'MON MAN !
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I don't think it's all about the booze. But it surely is a factor. And for those for whom partying with their buddies is the big draw (which I have no issue with), what difference does it make when that happens in relation to when the season starts? And, for those who are serious about getting a deer, what difference does the starting day make in relation to that effort?

What it comes down to is that traditionalists can still do their thing no matter when the first day happens. But there are people (much less vocal than traditionalists) who cannot get out that Monday (for whatever reason), but could on Saturday. They can ONLY get out opening day, if that day is a Saturday.
 

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Repeating something stupid over and over again doesn't make it sound any better.


For the record, I missed some openers during my 4 year full time military service and one for college too. I didn't need the day moved and 30 years later I still am hunting two states, you either hunt or you do not hunt. I hunt 2 states and my camp is in NY, the overlap of seasons has been a factor I have dealt with for many seasons but now the time spent in my camp now is further truncated by this change and that is why I am not in favor of it. Next year the NY opener is on the first day of PA bear, I will likely miss that but I'm not going to quit hunting because of it. I will work around all the changes and continue to hunt.



As far as selfishness I lent a hand to a member of this site with some intel on a place near my home to bear hunt because I couldn't be here. He saw what he described to me as a 400 lb bear, he didn't kill it, but if I were so selfish, I'd surely never have reached out to the guy and try to help find a bear.



I have 3 mentored youth sons coming up too and they get a lot of my time, rabbit hunting with the oldest this weekend, and some flintlock target practice too, gotta get them ready for any nice weather we may get in the late season.


I also put a 16 year old hunter from the neighboring camp who I had never met, in a stand for the NY opening weekend and he killed a buck and a doe out of it on my property, yeah I'm pretty selfish.
 

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Meh... you started a thread to ask WHY for those of us opposed. I give you valid fodder as to why I, and many others are opposed, then you go to the ol' fall-back of "It's all about the booze"....or lack thereof.


To steal from Randy Moss...…. C'MON MAN !

It ain't about the booze to me, it's about me losing time that was always there and being told it is better. Then to hear someone say well just skip the saturday and start hunting monday, I was hunting Saturday and half of sunday before with no worries, now it's gone and I get labeled a traditionalist. If they wanted a saturday opener it should have been pushed ahead a week not back 2 days.
 
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I personally did not like the change at all. Thanksgiving was spent with Family at home. Traveled to camp Friday morning and then everything was a rush , From getting the camp opened up to going out and making sure blinds, stands were still there to prepping for Saturday opener. RUSH RUSH RUSH.
Its great to say do your scouting and and all that in advance but not all of us have that luxury.
And it also took away the camps getting and just talking with some folks you don't see very often . As far as extra time and hunters in the woods, shots were rare on Saturday and Monday were pretty much none.
The camp above us hunted Saturday and went home Sunday because their schools and jobs eliminated the Monday opener holiday, what did we gain there ?
That being said my BIL camp kept the traditional Monday opener , no success and no hunters , most camps around them went home Sunday.
In my opinion this change totally backfired.
Another big question for me , as most guys might be like me is I have to put in my vacation time before the end of 2019, so whats the big hold up with announcing the Sunday hunting dates
 

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I'm not dismissing tradition. I just don't understand why it has to change based on what day of the season it is. Why is the first day "magical"? They all seem pretty good to me.
Think of how many other real holidays shift days from year to year yet we don't focus on a specific day of the week for those.
 

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I'm not dismissing tradition. I just don't understand why it has to change based on what day of the season it is. Why is the first day "magical"? They all seem pretty good to me.

I'm totally impartial to the change, well I wish it would have stayed Monday so I could hunt MD 1st day on Sat, but it really doesn't matter since I usually shoot my buck with a bow.


I think the "magical" first day reference has to do with the once upon a time statistic (prior to AR) that 75% of the bucks are harvested the first day.
 

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What's that Harley-Davidson quote ? "If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand". :wink2:

Danesdad is no johnny come lately. He totally "gets it". He has read all the many threads we have had on this topic and participated in them as well. Either he is just to shallow to understand what it meant to so many hunters or he just doesn't want to admit something was lost to the PA hunting community and he doesn't like it that there just may be enough back lash to change it back. Unlikely I know, but within the realm of possibility.
Personally I give that one chance in five at best.


Oh, almost forgot to ad that I don't give a rats buttocks that some college age kid cant skip class to hunt. I and many fellow vets missed more than a few openers, many more, while we were serving over seas. We came right back to hunting when we could. I know life is tough while a kid guts it out in college but if he makes it home he can hunt the opener then. If you thought that last sounded sarcastic, by god you'd be right.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Repeating something stupid over and over again doesn't make it sound any better.


For the record, I missed some openers during my 4 year full time military service and one for college too. I didn't need the day moved and 30 years later I still am hunting two states, you either hunt or you do not hunt. I hunt 2 states and my camp is in NY, the overlap of seasons has been a factor I have dealt with for many seasons but now the time spent in my camp now is further truncated by this change and that is why I am not in favor of it. Next year the NY opener is on the first day of PA bear, I will likely miss that but I'm not going to quit hunting because of it. I will work around all the changes and continue to hunt.



As far as selfishness I lent a hand to a member of this site with some intel on a place near my home to bear hunt because I couldn't be here. He saw what he described to me as a 400 lb bear, he didn't kill it, but if I were so selfish, I'd surely never have reached out to the guy and try to help find a bear.



I have 3 mentored youth sons coming up too and they get a lot of my time, rabbit hunting with the oldest this weekend, and some flintlock target practice too, gotta get them ready for any nice weather we may get in the late season.


I also put a 16 year old hunter from the neighboring camp who I had never met, in a stand for the NY opening weekend and he killed a buck and a doe out of it on my property, yeah I'm pretty selfish.
You need not be so defensive. I don't think anyone called you selfish. To me, it sounds like you have tons of options and just not enough time. I can see where that would be stressful to you, but believe me, it is a luxury.
 
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