Food plots vs baiting
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because the LAW says they aren't
I didn't really mean the big food plots of a bunch of acres. What I was wondering was this...I was reading an article in a hunting magazine (don't remember which one) that said the author picked out a spot for his stand and then took some Sew and Grow and made a small 10' x 10' food plot near his stand. This helped bring feeding deer into bow range. Just wondering if that was legal in PA or not.Dutch said:
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Might have been a Waste of your Time...rlfb74 said:
But, what 47studebaker Posted was STRAIGHT and to the Point and WHAT is FACT!
Sorry, you feel it was a Waste of your Time, But he was Right on the Mark!!
Place it they will come..... plant it, they will come... 1 Illegal, 1 Legal!
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rlfb74 said:
PERFECTLY Legal!!
Place the SEEDs, the Seeds Germinate, Grow Roots, Push Stems and Leaves up out of the Ground... Stems and Leaves Gather Light, Produce Fruit, seeds, what ever the plant was intended to produce..
PERFECTLY Legal!
Place it they will come (Great Big Ole Pile of Corn, Apples, Pears, Turnip Tops, Peanuts, pop corn and Cracker Jacks)- Illegal!
Plant it they Will Come (seeds, grow into plants and fruit and drop thier fruits or seeds to be eaten by the Critters)- Legal! Don't matter if it is 3 foot Square, 1,000 ACRES Square!
Why can not guys under stand.. Put a SEED in the Ground, Seed Germinates, Pushs up out of the Ground, Grows Stem, Leaves and then Fruit or seed pods and the Critters eat it and it is Perfectly LEGAL?????
Is it that Hard to understand Planting, Seed Germinates and so forth is Perfectly LEGAL and has no matter what size footage, acre or miless it is???
BUT, if you plant those seeds, let them grow, then Harvest the off come of the seeds into a Bucket, Bushel Basket, Sack and Transport it to another place or even 1 foot away onto Piles, it is NOT Legal!
Is it that Hard to understand???
It was correct and to the point, but it did not explain why. That is why it was a waste of my time. It didn't accomplish anything. If "because the law says so" were everyones answer to a question in this forum, we wouldn't need the forum. Explain why, not just because it says so.Woodywoodduck said:
Is it that hard to explain without being sarcastic? It was never explained to me and does not explain the difference in the law book (that I could find). If I plant a small food plot and HAVE NO INTENTIONS OF HARVESTING IT, than why is it not baiting? Seeds, germinations, blah, blah, blah. It is no different. The main intention was to lure game.Woodywoodduck said:
The land I hunt was logged off 2 years ago. This winter I'm going to go and clear off 6 spots all over the property that now get sunlight. There is no way I can get harvesting equipment into them because of the terrain. I'm going to plant them all with different types of food plots (clover, turnips, etc.) I might even plant a few rows of corn in one or two of them. Then, I'm going to plant 6 or 7 apple trees in each one of them. Then, I'm going to build a treestand at each one and put up trail cameras and take pics of what I see. Finally, I'm going to hunt over them and you're going to tell me that isn't baiting?
Well, that's fine. Because when your hunting the clover plot, the deer may be over at the turnip plot. However, I will tell you that we have planted three turnip plots and as of today, the deer haven't munched on one darn turnip. I'm thinkin mid Dec. will be when they decide turnips are lookin good.rlfb74 said:
That's good too. Just make sure you plant at least 2 rows minimum. 4 would be better as corn must cross pollinate in order to have ears actually produce. But then, there's no guarantee you will have deer come to your corn....in the day. They may come at night. Or come to your turnips when your sittin over your corn. Or....better yet....your at one end of the corn....and they will be munchin at the other end. Yeah....like ask me how I know.rlfb74 said:
Yeah....well, like the three times I had that big 8 point on the other side of the apple tree and he just wouldn't go left or right. Twice the wind shifted and once the hot doe went by. It's tough to get an arrow thru a tree. But it's not so tough to get an arrow to a buck when he's just munchin on a pile of apples that you threw on the ground.rlfb74 said:
See the difference? If you don't see the difference, perhaps your just being obstinate.
Trees grow via Ma Nature. Corn grows from farmers. Clover fields grow....'cause we plant 'em. But they all present different problems when your tryin to stick a stick into a deer. Way different than when you just pile a bunch of food on the ground.
Dave
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So then deer come to bait piles during daylight hours and not at night. Now I see.DaveT said:
Exactly what part of the shooting through a tree, or you at one end of a 100 yard clover patch and the deer at the other, or you at an empty clover patch and the deer at the turnip patch didn't you comprehend?
I mean, if it were that easy.....why doesn't everyone who has a food plot have a wall hanger on day 1? Or for that matter, why doesn't everyone who hunts over food plots have a wall hanger by the end of archery season?
I mean heck....if it's that easy....how come?
Dave
I mean, if it were that easy.....why doesn't everyone who has a food plot have a wall hanger on day 1? Or for that matter, why doesn't everyone who hunts over food plots have a wall hanger by the end of archery season?
I mean heck....if it's that easy....how come?
Dave
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Same goes for baiting. It isn't as easy as you think. Most people in my area who post up their ground tight and plant a few food plots shot nice bucks every year. Mostly during the first week. The only difference between a food plot and a bait pile is one is legal and the other is not.DaveT said:
I can understand how you see the situation. I can not understand why the problem.
Hunters have always relied on food sources to find game while hunting. Hunters have always hunted farmers fields. In the not so distant past, corn pickers were used instead of the ever ready and highly efficient combine. Kernels and even whole ears of corn were found all over the place. The knocked over stalks provided cover for foraging small game as well.
From the earliest days of this country, hunters hunted the farm fields for this very reason. A rabbit in the pot was easier to come by this way than going far afield in search of the same game. Same for any other animal coming onto farm land.
Perhaps this long held practice is why the reg is worded to accept normal farming practices for hunting over.
Sec. 2307. Unlawful taking or possession of game or wildlife.
(8) Any artificial or natural bait, hay, grain, fruit, nut, salt, chemical, mineral or other food as an enticement for game or wildlife, regardless of kind and quantity, or take advantage of any such area or food or bait prior to 30 days after the removal of such material and its residue.
Nothing contained in this subsection shall pertain to normal or accepted farming, habitat management practices, oil and gas drilling, mining, forest management activities or other legitimate commercial or industrial practices. Upon discovery of such baited areas, whether prosecution is contemplated or not, the commission may cause a reasonable area surrounding the enticement to be posted against hunting or taking game or wildlife. The posters shall remain for 30 days after complete removal of the bait.
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=478&q=151077#2308
The reasoning for the broad latitude in what is acceptable is due to commerce. Farmers, and others need the ability to farm, but also for crop damage control. Mostly done through hunting, if normal and accepted farming practices were not authorized for hunters to hunt over, farmers could and would incur huge losses.
So basically, if the crop, food plot, or other stuff has roots - it's legal. In the case of minerals, say a drilling rig uses a fluid, or produces a mineral of interest to animals. A natural by product of the drilling or mining operation. This to is legal to hunt over.
As posted before, a small plot in the middle of the woods is legal. Planting crops dedicated for wildlife is also legal. A likely extension of the need for farmers to have the ability to have hunters perform crop damage hunting for them.
For me, the small, middle of the woods, food plot is a none issue. With food plots, like regular farming, there is no guarantee it will grow. If it does, there is no guarantee that it will have the taste agreeable to critters. The minerals in the ground has a lot to do with crop quality and quantity. There is also no guarantee that there isn't something closer, more plentiful, or tastier for the critter in question at that time of the hunt or season as well.
Even if the stars align just right and the food plot is perfect. There is no guarantee that the critter in season will be on the schedule that takes it to the food plot during legal hunting hours.
Bait has some of the same problems in the guarantee department. But before all that - it is just plain illegal by regulation and law.
In answer to your question about planting all the food plots you mentioned and placing stands over them. Go for it. it is legal. Hope everything lines up for you.
Besides, you will be helping far more animals than just deer. Turkeys, rabbits, song birds and a host of other animals will dine in your offering. They may not eat the actual plant, but may dine on the insects that the plants bring. Some animals may not even eat the plants or insects but the other animals eating them.
A food plot has a life cycle like any other environment. From the minute you turn the soil, you provide nutrients to an animal or another plant that hadn't the food source before. Turning the soil may also allow dormant seed to germinate producing yet another source of food for all critters.
In summation, food plots often provide a very long change in the area long after the original planted crop has come and gone.
Hunters have always relied on food sources to find game while hunting. Hunters have always hunted farmers fields. In the not so distant past, corn pickers were used instead of the ever ready and highly efficient combine. Kernels and even whole ears of corn were found all over the place. The knocked over stalks provided cover for foraging small game as well.
From the earliest days of this country, hunters hunted the farm fields for this very reason. A rabbit in the pot was easier to come by this way than going far afield in search of the same game. Same for any other animal coming onto farm land.
Perhaps this long held practice is why the reg is worded to accept normal farming practices for hunting over.
Sec. 2307. Unlawful taking or possession of game or wildlife.
(8) Any artificial or natural bait, hay, grain, fruit, nut, salt, chemical, mineral or other food as an enticement for game or wildlife, regardless of kind and quantity, or take advantage of any such area or food or bait prior to 30 days after the removal of such material and its residue.
Nothing contained in this subsection shall pertain to normal or accepted farming, habitat management practices, oil and gas drilling, mining, forest management activities or other legitimate commercial or industrial practices. Upon discovery of such baited areas, whether prosecution is contemplated or not, the commission may cause a reasonable area surrounding the enticement to be posted against hunting or taking game or wildlife. The posters shall remain for 30 days after complete removal of the bait.
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=478&q=151077#2308
The reasoning for the broad latitude in what is acceptable is due to commerce. Farmers, and others need the ability to farm, but also for crop damage control. Mostly done through hunting, if normal and accepted farming practices were not authorized for hunters to hunt over, farmers could and would incur huge losses.
So basically, if the crop, food plot, or other stuff has roots - it's legal. In the case of minerals, say a drilling rig uses a fluid, or produces a mineral of interest to animals. A natural by product of the drilling or mining operation. This to is legal to hunt over.
As posted before, a small plot in the middle of the woods is legal. Planting crops dedicated for wildlife is also legal. A likely extension of the need for farmers to have the ability to have hunters perform crop damage hunting for them.
For me, the small, middle of the woods, food plot is a none issue. With food plots, like regular farming, there is no guarantee it will grow. If it does, there is no guarantee that it will have the taste agreeable to critters. The minerals in the ground has a lot to do with crop quality and quantity. There is also no guarantee that there isn't something closer, more plentiful, or tastier for the critter in question at that time of the hunt or season as well.
Even if the stars align just right and the food plot is perfect. There is no guarantee that the critter in season will be on the schedule that takes it to the food plot during legal hunting hours.
Bait has some of the same problems in the guarantee department. But before all that - it is just plain illegal by regulation and law.
In answer to your question about planting all the food plots you mentioned and placing stands over them. Go for it. it is legal. Hope everything lines up for you.
Besides, you will be helping far more animals than just deer. Turkeys, rabbits, song birds and a host of other animals will dine in your offering. They may not eat the actual plant, but may dine on the insects that the plants bring. Some animals may not even eat the plants or insects but the other animals eating them.
A food plot has a life cycle like any other environment. From the minute you turn the soil, you provide nutrients to an animal or another plant that hadn't the food source before. Turning the soil may also allow dormant seed to germinate producing yet another source of food for all critters.
In summation, food plots often provide a very long change in the area long after the original planted crop has come and gone.
Also forgot the other hazards of the plotter. Time and money lost due to no rain. To much rain. A early or late frost. Seeds lot to foraging birds or other animals. The normal host of weeds taking over the plot, or plant diseases.
Plant it and they will come is sort of a oxymoron. Plant it, and if it grows with everything turning out about half right - they will come..
Plant it and they will come is sort of a oxymoron. Plant it, and if it grows with everything turning out about half right - they will come..
Not posted to anyone,in particular.I've read that planting food plots,apple trees & crops left for wildlife is considered baiting by some.Here is a different scenario.
I plant 20 white oak trees in a section of field,on my property.I am making no bones about this they are being planted as a food source for wildlife.After 25 years they start to produce acorns.I then put a treestand,in one, of the trees. The deer as we all know like acorns.Would some of you consider this baiting?Now remember that my intent was to bring in more game.If it is baiting how is it different the hunting mast in another area which I did not plant.If not baiting how is it different than planting apple trees or food plots for the same purpose.
I plant 20 white oak trees in a section of field,on my property.I am making no bones about this they are being planted as a food source for wildlife.After 25 years they start to produce acorns.I then put a treestand,in one, of the trees. The deer as we all know like acorns.Would some of you consider this baiting?Now remember that my intent was to bring in more game.If it is baiting how is it different the hunting mast in another area which I did not plant.If not baiting how is it different than planting apple trees or food plots for the same purpose.
Mike,
There's a line in the sand for everything. That's where the PGC drew the line on that one.
They drew the line on A\R to three points in some area's and 4 points (too a side) in others. Should we chat about that? Nah.....it just comes down to I think what I think...and you think what you think.
Point is, the line has to be drawn somewhere. There has to be rules and structure. If not, we would have one-million judge's out there making up rules as they go along.
Dave
There's a line in the sand for everything. That's where the PGC drew the line on that one.
They drew the line on A\R to three points in some area's and 4 points (too a side) in others. Should we chat about that? Nah.....it just comes down to I think what I think...and you think what you think.
Point is, the line has to be drawn somewhere. There has to be rules and structure. If not, we would have one-million judge's out there making up rules as they go along.
Dave
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food plots are baiting, I don't care how you slice it. why do people hunt food plots or row crops? because the deer are coming to them to eat. all those crops and plots were planted by man at some point or another. carrying a bag of seed out to the woods is no different than carry a bag of corn or apples. like it or not, that's how it is. people who hunt food plots don't think its baiting because they don't want to be labeled as baiters. I hunt bait everyday, I got 50 acres of "golden retriever", and another 15 of alfalfa. its bait, it was placed there by man. deer are going to it to eat.
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