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Discussion Starter #1
I did some testing with an Excalibur Matrix today. I'm very impressed with the results. I didn't know how a 18 inch arrow was going to perform. I've shot short arrows in other crossbows with mixed results. Here are some of my findings and a few surprises along the way. Keep in mind that the Victory is 396 grains and the GT Laser IV is 456 grains. It's breezy here and it was playing havoc on my group sizes. I need to bench it and try a few more.

Drop from 20-40 yards. Victory arrow and GT Laser IV side by side. Take note of the 20-30 yard pics. The upper and lower bullseyes are 10 inches apart. I used the 20 yard crosshair and aimed at the upper bullseye. Sorry for the rotated picture.


Gold Tip Laser IV group at 30 yards. I aimed at the bull above the group with the 20 yard pin. Wind pushed me out of the group on one shot.


Measurement showing the drop at 30 yards. 3 3/4 inches drop 20-30 yards.

This was a huge surprise to me. The Victory arrow is 396 grains, the GT Laser IV is 456 grains. I can't explain what happened here.
Planetary misalignment?

Drop from 20-30 yards Victory Xbolt.


It was however, one of the best groups I shot.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
In the bottom photo, the white vaned arrows are GT Laser III's. I wasn't impressed by them at all.

Looking at the photo's above, I'm correct in asking Victory to build an arrow that will finish in the 450 grain range. I spoke to them at great length about that, just last week. Let's keep out fingers crossed and hope they build it.
 

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I shoot the victory shafts I got from you to shhot with my axiom. I'm going to get a matrix soon and want to shoot same arrow. Could I cut my victory shafts down to 18" and shoot that shaft from both xbows? Or could I shoot the victory shaft at 20" out of both?
 

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nharrison said:
I shoot the victory shafts I got from you to shhot with my axiom. I'm going to get a matrix soon and want to shoot same arrow. Could I cut my victory shafts down to 18" and shoot that shaft from both xbows? Or could I shoot the victory shaft at 20" out of both?
You can shoot longer arrows. They will just stick out a bit. If I ever get a Matrix, I will stick to my 20 inch arrows. I wish crossbow manufacturers would stick to conventional 20 inch arrow lengths.
 

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Mike, do you feel the 18 inch arrows will need a higher FOC to stabilize?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
dpms said:
Mike, do you feel the 18 inch arrows will need a higher FOC to stabilize?
Yes, it made a huge difference. The arrows I shot yesterday were about 11.5% FOC. The ones I shot today are at 14.5% FOC. The 14.5 shot much better. (added 150 grain heads) I had three arrows touching at 30 yards. Very good in my opinion, for a crossbow shooting these speeds.

With a 18 inch arrow it's going to be difficult to get near the "normal" 18% FOC without some sort of very heavy insert, or a short aluminum arrow shaft inside the carbon shaft.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Just a quick note on the 20 inch arrows. I think one of the reasons Excal went with the 18 inch arrows is due to the fact that the 20's simply didn't work that well.

An arrow cut to 20 inches will have less spine, than an equal arrow of the exact same material cut to 18 inches. (the 18 inch arrow will be stiffer) The 18 inch arrows seem to have about the correct amount of spine to handle the forces of a 260 lb. recurve crossbow.

If there were a stiffer arrow I'd love to try it, but at the current state of arrow development; the GT Laser IV is about the stiffest arrow we have. If I could get a 110 grain brass insert for it, I think it would be about the perfect arrow for this crossbow. The way it is now, you will need to find 150 grain broadheads.

Edit: Above-I'm talking about building for a 100 grain head. I would need the 110 grain brass insert for it. The 150 grain heads plus the 60 grain brass insert equals 210 grains. That would be equal to a 100 grain head and 110 grani brass insert.
 

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What arrow did you like the best with the 150 grain head?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I stuck with the Gold Tip Laser IV's as they seemed the best choice based on what I did with them yesterday. They didn't drop any more then the Victory and less than the Laser III's. I can't hardly wrap my head around why the heavier arrows are dropping less? It makes no sense at all to me.


I believe the Laser IV is getting a cleaner launch, has the spine that matches the bow the best and stabilizes faster. That can be the only logical explanation for it.
 

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arrowhead said:
I believe the Laser IV is getting a cleaner launch, has the spine that matches the bow the best and stabilizes faster. That can be the only logical explanation for it.
That would be my best guess as well. Stabilizing faster and retaining momentum. I suspected it would take a very stiff arrow to fly the best out of this bow. With a very short power stroke and high poundage, there has to be incredible acceleration unlike anything we have seen in crossbows.

Curious how the CamX Accuspines fly and also Firenocks crossbow arrows.
 

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dpms said:
cspot said:
Hey Gene I like the new avatar!
Thanks. Me too!
It looks like a young wolf!! Good news on the Matrix. I agree on the shaft stiffness, I beleive that is why the heavier arrow is dropping less. Thanks Mike
 

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I was excited about this bow but if theres only 1" difference in drop from 20 yards to 30 yards then my Exocet 200 why even waste my money.
 

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Finley1 said:
I was excited about this bow but if theres only 1" difference in drop from 20 yards to 30 yards then my Exocet 200 why even waste my money.
I picked my Matrix up today and all I can say is wow. It is so compact in comparison to my Vortex. Yes there is a little pickup in speed, but the main thing is the improvement in size. The trigger is a lot better than my Vortex as well.
 

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arrowhead said:
Yes, it made a huge difference. The arrows I shot yesterday were about 11.5% FOC. The ones I shot today are at 14.5% FOC. The 14.5 shot much better. (added 150 grain heads) I had three arrows touching at 30 yards. Very good in my opinion, for a crossbow shooting these speeds.

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This combo shot great even in the high wind. When I get a better day, I will do some shooting with the broadheads on it.

Anyone considering a new bow should check out the Matrix. It is an impressive bow. You won't believe how compact it is for a recurve crossbow.
 

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I shot over 40 deer out of a Summit Viper with my Exocet the size made no difference. If you shoot behind in a climbing treestand using any crossbow the limbs have to be on the other side of the tree 6" wider doesn't make a difference. I was thinking that much more speed would be forgiving in judging distance if you were off a little between 20 and 30 yards but it really isn't. I only shoot 30 max I figured it would drop half as much but was wrong.
 
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