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i'm renting a P.O. box in leeper for the next ten years :)

they need to do the drawing by hand. stick all those tags in a barrel and rotate the barrel, reach in and draw a name. the person drawing the names has to be blindfolded and wearing a short sleeve shirt, the tag then has to be kept in plain view and placed under a projection screen that shows it large enough for the crowd to see.
if it takes 8 hours to draw the names, then thats what it takes. computerized drawings can be fixed...ask Dominion :)
you wouldnt even need that, when you buy an elk draw chance the system gives you a serial number. Then have that ball thing from the power ball draw thing there at the elk expo, have the pgc read up on how to do a live stream, and do it that way real time. none of this oh there was 1 witness to the computer drawing names in a room somewhere.

they could be transparent about it if they wanted to, but the pgc seems to tuck tail and shove its head in the sand. and im not a PGC basher i think we have amazing oppurtunities here but when someone jacks it up you gotta acknowledge it, talk about it, and fix it and they dont seem to want to do that.
 
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Holy moly, how haven’t I heard about this guy??? Good grief…


Or how about this “luck”? 9 elk tags won on licenses bought from the same Walmart in Harleysville, PA??

 

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BB can you break down the winners by Zip Code?
 
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BB can you break down the winners by Zip Code?
That would definitely be some data that would be very interesting to look at.

I think I’m going to try and get all the raw data from the PGC to try and do a more in depth analysis of some of the things that seem to be reoccurring year after year. I doubt they will be able to provide me with it, likely citing privacy issues, but I dont need names or CID numbers, just hometowns.

Obviously, delving deeper, like finding out the percentage of tags drawn that were applied for at the point of sale compared to online, and how common is it, like the story above, for one point of sale location to account for multiple tags drawn over the years?

All of this data would be incredibly fascinating to crunch and see how many weird, reoccurring “coincidences” keep happening.
 

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Holy moly, how haven’t I heard about this guy??? Good grief…


Or how about this “luck”? 9 elk tags won on licenses bought from the same Walmart in Harleysville, PA??

Soo BB, you said earlier that when somebody was drawn for a second bull tag, that was when you were out of the drawing? Does this mean you're now done???

Just joking of course....
 

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BB has cracked the code and knows too much. He’s in danger of getting the Epstein treatment from the Winslow Hill Mob.
Funny, but I want to go on the record as saying that I personally don’t believe that someone is “rigging” the system, I just think that maybe the program that draws the names every year might have some sort of bugs that keep resulting in these odd coincidences.

Although with situations like in 2004 when Rawley Cogan’s son and a state representative both won bull tags, I can see why many people are skeptical about things being on the up and up…
 

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BB has cracked the code and knows too much. He’s in danger of getting the Epstein treatment from the Winslow Hill Mob.
Funny, but I want to go on the record as saying that I personally don’t believe that someone is “rigging” the system, I just think that maybe the program that draws the names every year might have some sort of bugs that keep resulting in these odd coincidences.

Although with situations like in 2004 when Rawley Cogan’s son and a state representative both won bull tags, I can see why many people are skeptical about things being on the up and up…
 

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And to be perfectly honest, the recent past of this thread is where some of you start to lose me. I can see being disappointed in not being drawn, even disgusted. But digging up bones and conspiracy theories about people who have been drawn starts to look a bit desperate to me. Like the Leeper thing. I drive through Leeper all the time. Yeah, it's small, but it's rural and I'm sure the majority of people who live there hunt. Is it REALLY that much of a stretch that they get drawn? Is there a conspiracy to draw people from Leeper? I doubt it. If you look back through all of the draw info, there have been people drawn from just about any town you can name in PA. Heck, I was drawn in 2017 and last year. And another guy from my town was drawn this year. I talked to him on Monday. Now the town itself has about 1200 people, but the proper mailing address area has many more. Conspiracy for my town? Doubt it. I know I don't have any connections or favors to call down.
I did not know that there was somebody who drew two bull tags. Heck I only drew two cow tags. Should I be jealous of that guy and cry foul? I'll choose not to. One more thing. I know from past posts that quite a few people apply bull only and that is all well and good. But if you are applying in a manner to limit yourself on being drawn, then to me you forfeit your right to complain about being drawn. If someone truly wants drawn, they will apply all seasons, any tag. If you eliminate yourself from the biggest share of tags given, then your argument holds alot less weight.
 

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All the rage for a while there was that residents of the elk range were the ones getting drawn. How many elk range residents were drawn this year???
 

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And to be perfectly honest, the recent past of this thread is where some of you start to lose me. I can see being disappointed in not being drawn, even disgusted. But digging up bones and conspiracy theories about people who have been drawn starts to look a bit desperate to me. Like the Leeper thing. I drive through Leeper all the time. Yeah, it's small, but it's rural and I'm sure the majority of people who live there hunt. Is it REALLY that much of a stretch that they get drawn? Is there a conspiracy to draw people from Leeper? I doubt it. If you look back through all of the draw info, there have been people drawn from just about any town you can name in PA. Heck, I was drawn in 2017 and last year. And another guy from my town was drawn this year. I talked to him on Monday. Now the town itself has about 1200 people, but the proper mailing address area has many more. Conspiracy for my town? Doubt it. I know I don't have any connections or favors to call down.
I did not know that there was somebody who drew two bull tags. Heck I only drew two cow tags. Should I be jealous of that guy and cry foul? I'll choose not to. One more thing. I know from past posts that quite a few people apply bull only and that is all well and good. But if you are applying in a manner to limit yourself on being drawn, then to me you forfeit your right to complain about being drawn. If someone truly wants drawn, they will apply all seasons, any tag. If you eliminate yourself from the biggest share of tags given, then your argument holds alot less weight.
I just stated in a previous post that I don’t believe they the system is “rigged” but that with just a quick analysis of recent draws, there are reoccurring “coincidences” that seem to defy logic and the odds. Could it be just coincidences? Sure. Could there be some sort of flaw on the computer program that is seemingly giving out quite a few tags to the same towns or zip codes every year? Maybe.

I’m sure most everybody in Leeper does hunt, but it’s still 159 people. Of those 159 people, how many apply for elk tags? I don’t know because I don’t have the data, but I can almost guarantee that far more people from places with much higher populations apply every year. It’s just that the probability of things like that happening seem astronomical.

And as far as those with the most points getting the “lion’s share” of the tags? Naw. The only data I could find so far is from 2016:

Max points of 14

14 points-25 tags/20%
13 points-14 tags/11.2%
12 points-5 tags/4%
11 points-10 tags/8%
10 points-5 tags/4%
9 points-9 tags/7.2%
8 points-6 tags/4.8%
7 points-5 tags/4%
6 points-8 tags/6.4%
5 points-4 tags/3.2%
4 points-5 tags/4%
3 points-16 tags/12.8%
2 points-3 tags/2.4%
1 point-9 tags/7.2%
 

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Pennsylvania is still an infant when it comes to the really big game arena compared to our western and Canadian counterparts.
License fees should be reciprocal for the state the NR is applying from. If that state does not have NR Elk fee, then Pa. should charge the highest fee of the known states and providences.
Cap the NR licenses to 10%, period.
For NR owning property in Pa, then that property must be listed as their "primary" property to witch, they would then be a Pa resident and not a NR.
 

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There’s no “rage” from me at all. I’m simply noticing reoccurring oddities in the draws from year to year and contemplating the odds of such occurrences and it just seems too implausible.

Im not going to Leeper or New Ringold and start screaming and shouting about how they’re “rigging” the system or something, just entertaining the possibility that something in the algorithms programmed into the “randomized” draw, might be favoring certain zip codes or such. Then when you add in stories like the same Walmart producing 9 tag winners and is just like to know a little more about how the draw program works, and delve deeper into these things that seem to keep reoccurring.
 

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There’s no “rage” from me at all. I’m simply noticing reoccurring oddities in the draws from year to year and contemplating the odds of such occurrences and it just seems too implausible.

Im not going to Leeper or New Ringold and start screaming and shouting about how they’re “rigging” the system or something, just entertaining the possibility that something in the algorithms programmed into the “randomized” draw, might be favoring certain zip codes or such. Then when you add in stories like the same Walmart producing 9 tag winners and is just like to know a little more about how the draw program works, and delve deeper into these things that seem to keep reoccurring.
you could file a right to know request from te pgc.
 
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