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Discussion Starter #1
I see that the board discussed e bikes this past meeting. https://www.pgc.pa.gov/InformationResources/MediaReportsSurveys/Documents/2020 January Agenda.pdf

Text from the agenda:
A. Amend 58 Pa. Code §§ 131.2, 135.2 and 135.41.
Commentary: The Commission has observed that electric bicycles (e-bikes) are gaining
popularity within the Commonwealth and many hunters are exploring use
of E-bikes to assist them in reaching their hunting and trapping locations.
Under current regulation, it is unlawful to use or operate any type of e-bike
on State game lands, unless used by individuals with mobility disabilities.
The Commission also recognizes that there are many areas within its State
game lands system that are difficult to access often due to a lack of a
comprehensive road system that could sustain routine road vehicle traffic.
In many cases, it is simply impractical to build new and/or maintain
comprehensive road system in these areas.
As a result, the Commission has determined that permitted use of certain ebikes could greatly improve State game lands access and the hunting and
trapping experience for many of our hunters, including those that do not
suffer from a mobility disability. The Commission believes that allowing
responsible use of certain e-bikes can be accommodated without significant
damage to existing State game lands road and trail systems, wildlife
populations or the peace and tranquility of the Commission’s wilderness
areas.
The Commission is proposing to amend §§ 131.2, 135.2 and 135.41 to
define and allow use of Class I e-bikes on State game lands in the same
manner as traditional bicycles. These devices will be limited to twowheeled bicycle equipped with fully operable pedals and an electric motor
of 750 watts (1 h.p.) or less that provide assistance only when the rider is
actively pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle
reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour. The changes will not authorize use
of any device that is equipped with a throttle or that provides any degree of
assistance from an electric motor when the rider is not actively pedaling. It
is important to note that these amendments do not eliminate current
statutory restrictions prohibiting the possession of loaded firearms in, on or
against vehicles propelled by mechanical power under section 2503 of the
act.
31
CHAPTER 131. PRELIMINARY PROVISIONS
§ 131.2. Definitions.
In addition to the definitions contained in section 102 of the act (relating to
definitions), the following words and terms, when used in this part or in the act, have the following
meanings, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise:
* * * * *
Class I electric bicycle—A two-wheeled bicycle equipped with fully operable
pedals and an electric motor of 750 watts (1 h.p.) or less that provides assistance only when the
rider is actively pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed
of 20 miles per hour. This term does not include any device that is equipped with a throttle or that
provides any degree of assistance from an electric motor when the rider is not actively pedaling.

Of course, being Pennsylvania, they couldn't just allow e bikes. It has to be limited to a bike that only assists in pedaling. Can't use a motorized bike. I've given up on this state.
 

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Of course, being Pennsylvania, they couldn't just allow e bikes. It has to be limited to a bike that only assists in pedaling. Can't use a motorized bike. I've given up on this state.
Worst change the PGC could come up with is allowing these ebikes on SGL for all. Handicap usage yes. Able bodied individuals no. Use the same strict guidelines in place for handicap use of a vehicle as a blind.

Since you've given up on this state I guess this is the last we'll here from you.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Worst change the PGC could come up with is allowing these ebikes on SGL for all. Handicap usage yes. Able bodied individuals no. Use the same strict guidelines in place for handicap use of a vehicle as a blind.

Since you've given up on this state I guess this is the last we'll here from you.
Apparently not the last you'll hear from me. Not sure why my "giving up on this state" comment would exclude me from discussing the state and it's regulations?
 

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Worst change the PGC could come up with is allowing these ebikes on SGL for all. Handicap usage yes. Able bodied individuals no. Use the same strict guidelines in place for handicap use of a vehicle as a blind.

Since you've given up on this state I guess this is the last we'll here from you.

I agree. Handicap usage for an E bike, with a permit, the same as for a handicapped hunter using an ATV, and with the same restrictions. ATV's on SGL's are limited to 6 mph, and restricted to within 100 yards of accepted trails. That was the rules laid out for ATV use when mine were recieved.

Allowing anyone without need to operate an E bike on SGL's is a mistake, just as stopping the operator from access from a throttle is wrong IMO.

I could easily understand permits being awarded for traveling long distances for trapping, and or hunting using the bike to aid in transporting equipment, just not general accepted usage.
 

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I'm torn on this. I hate the idea of spending the money to buy one but they are nice toys.

I think many of the smaller suburban GLs they'll be more of a scourge than mtb's already are. But rural large GLs, in the future I see a lot more vehicle access roads being closed as PGC barely maintains a lot of them now. Ebikes may soon become a necessity to access some areas in deep.

I think the management philosophy that a gamelands is a gamelands is a gamelands is a big mistake on this issue.
They need to be looked at individually or at least classified based on size and proximity to cities.
 

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This is what is printed on the Game commission website from the January meeting

E-BIKES COULD BE PERMITTED ON GAME LANDS
State game lands users soon could be able to ride Class 1 and Class 2 electric bicycles in the same manner they can ride traditional bicycles now.
The Pennsylvania Board of Game Commissioners today gave preliminary approval to a measure that would allow Class 1 and Class 2 e-bikes on game lands.
A Class 1 e-bike is defined as a two-wheeled bicycle equipped with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of 750 watts (1 horsepower) or less that provides assistance only when the rider is actively pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 mph.
A Class 2 e-bike is defined as bicycle equipped with fully operable pedals and a throttle-actuated 750-watt motor that ceases to provide assistance when the e-bike reaches 20 mph. The bike can operate without pedaling.
The measure will be brought back to the April meeting for a final vote.
If adopted, the measure would allow Class 1 and Class 2 e-bike riders to ride anywhere on game lands while actively engaged in hunting, trapping or fishing. E-bikes would be permitted on any roads normally open to public travel or posted designated routes.
From the last Saturday in September until the third Saturday in January, and from the second Saturday of April and through the last Saturday of May, e-bike use that’s unrelated to hunting, trapping or fishing would be prohibited, except on Sundays.
At present, disabled persons are permitted to use e-bikes as mobility devices on game lands. Commissioners said allowing e-bikes to be used responsibly by all hunters and trappers would greatly improve access and enhance their experiences afield, without causing significant damage to existing road and trail systems, wildlife or the peace and tranquility of wilderness areas
 

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I'm torn on this. I hate the idea of spending the money to buy one but they are nice toys.

I think many of the smaller suburban GLs they'll be more of a scourge than mtb's already are. But rural large GLs, in the future I see a lot more vehicle access roads being closed as PGC barely maintains a lot of them now. Ebikes may soon become a necessity to access some areas in deep.

I think the management philosophy that a gamelands is a gamelands is a gamelands is a big mistake on this issue.
They need to be looked at individually or at least classified based on size and proximity to cities.
Well, not really a necessity. I'm not aware of anywhere in PA a healthy fit individual would be unable to access on foot....if the desire is great enough. More of a convenience, for the able bodied anyhow.
 

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I was at the sportsman show and there was a guy advertising his bikes as being able to do 65 mph with a range of 70 miles. He said no peddling unless you wanted to. I was asking him about the new pa consideration and he specifically said that he doesnt put any ratings on the bike on purpose for that reason. He said he also has a smaller model that he has geared down for max torque at 28 mph and range.

I dunno, if they can actually regulate it sure but i'd be pissed if people start flying around the SGLs doing anything more than peddle speed on these things. If you like dirt bikes theyre perfect for you since there is no exhaust noise like a dirt bike to attract attention to you being where you shouldnt be.
 

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Over the past 10 years, I developed a respiratory condition which does not affect my ability to do most things if I take it easy. If I try to walk up a long hill, or do anything in a strenuous manner, I get very short of breath and develop coughing fits. Doc calls it interstitial lung disease. Never smoked, never worked around chemicals, etc. I could walk at a very leisurely pace along a road or trail. But anything faster is impossible. An e-bike would help substantially. I still bale hay on the farm, I still stack it in the barn, but at a very slow rate compared to just 5 years ago. I wear a respirator mask to do anything dusty. and the tractor cab has special air filters. Been thinking about an e-bike. For someone like me, it would be ideal.
 

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I was at the sportsman show and there was a guy advertising his bikes as being able to do 65 mph with a range of 70 miles. He said no peddling unless you wanted to. I was asking him about the new pa consideration and he specifically said that he doesnt put any ratings on the bike on purpose for that reason. He said he also has a smaller model that he has geared down for max torque at 28 mph and range.

I dunno, if they can actually regulate it sure but i'd be pissed if people start flying around the SGLs doing anything more than peddle speed on these things. If you like dirt bikes theyre perfect for you since there is no exhaust noise like a dirt bike to attract attention to you being where you shouldnt be.
I have an e-bike and what you're describing is completely false.First of all,they would be limited to 750w so they aren't anything like a dirt bike.The throttle isn't a throttle.It's an actuator and you don't ride these things without peddling.The throttle is useless,other than to help start on an incline.These bikes are simply peddle assist.If you don't peddle,you'll drain the battery in no time,I don't care what any rep has to say about it.If you're talking about those bakcou bikes at the show,I talked to them as well.The bike they had was good for 40 miles on a single charge if you peddle.I use mine a lot and it's a great tool.I peddle every where I go and it allows me to climbed long grades without working up a sweat.That' about it.You're not doing anywhere near 65 mph on one either.Mine you can comfortably ride between 15-17 mph but usually my speed averages 7-8 mph.
 

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Over the past 10 years, I developed a respiratory condition which does not affect my ability to do most things if I take it easy. If I try to walk up a long hill, or do anything in a strenuous manner, I get very short of breath and develop coughing fits. Doc calls it interstitial lung disease. Never smoked, never worked around chemicals, etc. I could walk at a very leisurely pace along a road or trail. But anything faster is impossible. An e-bike would help substantially. I still bale hay on the farm, I still stack it in the barn, but at a very slow rate compared to just 5 years ago. I wear a respirator mask to do anything dusty. and the tractor cab has special air filters. Been thinking about an e-bike. For someone like me, it would be ideal.
Zimmer, those against don't want to hear from you or me. I have a bad hip, 2 knees they have been trying to replacefor over 20 years. Some days I can walk a mile or two, many days less. I don't qualify under current laws for use of an ATV on gameland roads. Yes there would be those who take advantage. Punish them. I hunted a gameland all fall, not in the area I would like too though because I can't physically. So in that SGL I hunted over the course of archery and rifle season who was in the woods. I would say hours spent from those over 60 to those under 60 would be 80 to 20 percent. Over 60 to under 25, 98 to 2 percent. When the majority cannot access this property that our licenses have helped to provide over our lifetimes, something is wrong.
 

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I explained this before but it's worth mentioning it again.I rarely get time to hunt during the week and if I do.it's just stealing a couple hours from work early.Most of the places where I hunt are fairly remote that average about a 45 minute walk.That's fine on a weekend when I have time but during the week,it just isn't worth it.If I do a kill a deer,it takes me until way after dark to get it out and then way after that to deal with it at home.It just isn't worth it so I rarely hunt during the week.If I do go,I rarely bother killing anything.With a bike,I can be 1.5 miles from my truck in about 15 minutes without making any noise or working up a sweat.When I do kill one,I take the bike to the deer,quarter it up,toss it in a pannier bag and I'm back at my truck in about the time had I walked in and not killed anything.I did all that without impacting a soul or disrupting anyone's hunt.
 

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I have an e-bike and what you're describing is completely false.First of all,they would be limited to 750w so they aren't anything like a dirt bike.The throttle isn't a throttle.It's an actuator and you don't ride these things without peddling.The throttle is useless,other than to help start on an incline.These bikes are simply peddle assist.If you don't peddle,you'll drain the battery in no time,I don't care what any rep has to say about it.If you're talking about those bakcou bikes at the show,I talked to them as well.The bike they had was good for 40 miles on a single charge if you peddle.I use mine a lot and it's a great tool.I peddle every where I go and it allows me to climbed long grades without working up a sweat.That' about it.You're not doing anywhere near 65 mph on one either.Mine you can comfortably ride between 15-17 mph but usually my speed averages 7-8 mph.
So I understand the 750 watt rule but there are Ebikes with way more capability than that. How is a game warden supposed to tell the difference? Can you hook a multimeter up to one and test the battery? All you would have to do is pedal past at a slow rate and then take back off again when you're past someone. I'm not saying I'm against them yet, I'm just saying there are E bikes out there that are basically a dirt bike. Below is the vendor that I talked to at the sportsman show. They even highlight the fact that this can be used where dirtbikes are not allowed. Check out youtube if you dont believe me. There are videos of ebikes being ridden on the highway

https://electric-e-bicycles.com/product/full-suspension-super-fat-tire-bike-e-cheetah-7200-watts-max-speed-60-mph-max-distance-80-miles/
 

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I have an e-bike and what you're describing is completely false.First of all,they would be limited to 750w so they aren't anything like a dirt bike.

Doug, why do they (pgc) state that the class II bikes can operate without peddling?

"A Class 2 e-bike is defined as bicycle equipped with fully operable pedals and a throttle-actuated 750-watt motor that ceases to provide assistance when the e-bike reaches 20 mph. The bike can operate without pedaling."
 

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So I understand the 750 watt rule but there are Ebikes with way more capability than that. How is a game warden supposed to tell the difference? Can you hook a multimeter up to one and test the battery? All you would have to do is pedal past at a slow rate and then take back off again when you're past someone. I'm not saying I'm against them yet, I'm just saying there are E bikes out there that are basically a dirt bike. Below is the vendor that I talked to at the sportsman show. They even highlight the fact that this can be used where dirtbikes are not allowed. Check out youtube if you dont believe me. There are videos of ebikes being ridden on the highway

https://electric-e-bicycles.com/product/full-suspension-super-fat-tire-bike-e-cheetah-7200-watts-max-speed-60-mph-max-distance-80-miles/
That bike has a rating of 7200 watts,not the 750.A 750 w e-bike is not even close to being a dirt bike.
 

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Doug, why do they (pgc) state that the class II bikes can operate without peddling?

"A Class 2 e-bike is defined as bicycle equipped with fully operable pedals and a throttle-actuated 750-watt motor that ceases to provide assistance when the e-bike reaches 20 mph. The bike can operate without pedaling."
Because they're uneducated on the subject.The majority of e-bikes have a thumb operated actuator.Before I bought one,I assumed I'd be just gliding around on it and that's not the case.I tried it one time and my battery was dead within 4 miles.You peddle e-bikes.You just don't use as much physical exertion.
 

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Zimmer, those against don't want to hear from you or me. I have a bad hip, 2 knees they have been trying to replacefor over 20 years. Some days I can walk a mile or two, many days less. I don't qualify under current laws for use of an ATV on gameland roads. Yes there would be those who take advantage. Punish them. I hunted a gameland all fall, not in the area I would like too though because I can't physically. So in that SGL I hunted over the course of archery and rifle season who was in the woods. I would say hours spent from those over 60 to those under 60 would be 80 to 20 percent. Over 60 to under 25, 98 to 2 percent. When the majority cannot access this property that our licenses have helped to provide over our lifetimes, something is wrong.
I hear both of you but that doesn't mean I have to agree with you. If you're handicapped enough to get a doctors note, then go ahead and ride your e-bike. If you're not handicapped and just getting older, well that's life. What's next when you can no longer ride your e-bike, we'll transition you into a side by side for easy SGL access even if you're not handicapped?
 
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