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Not grasping at straws Hammer. Just playing the card that you crossbow guys played in order to get your weapon of choice into archery season. C'mon man, surely you guys could support other potential fellow hunters?
Get real, I didn't play any crossbow card, I wasn't a crossbow guy when they were legalized. A two shot crossbow totally negates the point of an archery season and if you stopped to think instead of trying to make a ridiculous point you might be able to grasp that. What do you think the long bow, the recurve bow and the compound bow guys are going to think about this stinker..
 

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Stinker? So you weren't a crossbow hunter then, your just an opportunist? Once they were "called" archery equipment, you partook of the opportunity...I see. I am a recurve and longbow guy, and what I see in your weapon regardless of whether it shoots 1 or 2 shots, is that it requires zero archery discipline. There were some folks that felt a line needed drawn in the sand. Now there is no line and the manufacterers have their foot in the door.
I was at the PGC meetiings when inlines were give October opportunities. I was involved when broadhead manufacturers alluded to lawsuits as to whether their heads met PGC regs. And I was there for the crossbow issue. And you want to draw the line now???????
 

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Stinker? So you weren't a crossbow hunter then, your just an opportunist? Once they were "called" archery equipment, you partook of the opportunity...I see. I am a recurve and longbow guy, and what I see in your weapon regardless of whether it shoots 1 or 2 shots, is that it requires zero archery discipline. There were some folks that felt a line needed drawn in the sand. Now there is no line and the manufacterers have their foot in the door.
I was at the PGC meetiings when inlines were give October opportunities. I was involved when broadhead manufacturers alluded to lawsuits as to whether their heads met PGC regs. And I was there for the crossbow issue. And you want to draw the line now???????
Well good for you I was there many times more than you were. You may be trying to make some kind of point but your effort is pointless. You must be in the camp of it the horse get out of the barn you may as well open all the doors and let all the animals out. I am not.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Come on folks. Its a new crossbow with a new technology. Looks like its legal. Do we have to start jabbing at each other again?
 

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This is a non-issue. It will die a quick death because this isn't what crossbow hunters want. Much like the push button co2 cocking crossbows.
 

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It might appeal to bear or big cat hunters if the price is right? pretty cleaver from Excalibur I might say, You can thank Raven crossbows for opening the market by promoting there 100 yard X-bows
 

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I’ve accepted crossbow inclusion and know many people that start their deer season in the beginning of October because of it. We have to draw a line somewhere though. This might be one toke over the line.
 

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Like it or not it it is the most innovative idea in all of archery in years.
 

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Come on folks. Its a new crossbow with a new technology. Looks like its legal. Do we have to start jabbing at each other again?
I was one of the guys strongly opposed in the beginning and also one of the guys who after a few years just accepted it.However,I remember the old arguments and my main argument was that the technology was in it's infancy and it needed to be watched closely.I was told that the crossbows with 400+fps speeds would be too expensive,not reliable,wouldn't shoot a BH and very few would be using them.They were about as good as they were gonna get at that time.
 

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I will also say this.We were also told that they're no more effective than compounds and in fact,had several disadvantages.That hasn't been my experience.i bought my son a stryker when he was 8.I had 4 years to play with it,watch him kill multiple deer that I wouldn't have shot with a compound,carry it around and I even killed a deer with it.I also got to watch a controlled hunt that I was part of go to over 80% participation with crossbows.This past year was biggest kill they ever had in that hunt and the number of hunters allowed had been reduced from 200 to 115.That is the effectiveness of crossbows.Again,I don't oppose their use and I don't look down upon those who use them,.I do however,think we're past the point where the technology has to be reined in.Sorry but shooting a 450fps crossbow with a lazer rangefinder on the scope is not bowhunting,not even close to it and neither is a crossbow capable of taking a second shot.I'm really starting to rethink the support I gave to crossbows over the past sevveral years.
 

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Several years ago I can remember that the pro crossbow guys on here kept saying that the technology and speeds of crossbows have pretty much maxed out...that’s when crossbows were shooting 350FPS max and they were pretty cumbersome. This was supposed to be maxed out technolgy......Today they you can get a crossbow that shoots 450 FPS + and compact with of 15” when cocked. Now two arrows... Where does it stop? Not sayin it’s a bad thing to get kids and older guys out in archery....but for an an able bodied person.....where is the sport and challenge of it now. It’s archery....it is what it is but might as well make a weapon of choice from September to January. Just as anything, technology will keep advancing to meet the wants and demands to make acoomplishing a task easier for people. But where does it stop in the sport of archery.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
I will also say this.We were also told that they're no more effective than compounds and in fact,had several disadvantages.
While I have said and do continue to say that crossbows have some disadvantages, I have always said that they are more effective and easier to take game with than vertical equipment.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Several years ago I can remember that the pro crossbow guys on here kept saying that the technology and speeds of crossbows have pretty much maxed out...that’s when crossbows were shooting 350FPS max and they were pretty cumbersome.
I will tell you the same thing I told dce. Some may have made that claim but I have never said crossbows would be tapped out at 350fps. Those that really know me in the crossbow circles know that I am not a speed demon guy. I prefer speeds of less than 400fps and do feel chasing speed will hurt the crossbow movement.
 

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The people that support crossbows have no way of knowing what a company that produces archery equipment is going to do.Dpms didn't,I didn't and compound bows have advanced as well.362 fps out of a compound, Xpedition MX-15 (362 fps) .My crossbow is rated at 330 fps and I really doubt it does that.I need to get motivated and get my chrono out to check though.Two shots with archery equipment will not sell well.People that use archery equipment know a second shot is not very likely.It can happen though I did it with a Bear compound years ago.
 

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I want to know how you sight it in to get both bolts to hit the same spot at different yardages? There has to be a difference as the pic makes it look like the lower limbs have a shorter power stroke, plus lower rail? What is the total weight compared to "normal"?
 

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I do think you could get two shots off. If you miss by misjudging distance, alot of times deer do not know what happened, they may take a hop or just stand there. Many times, you can see other deer stand around looking and not just run or they calm down.
 
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