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Discussion Starter #1
Why not just sell a buck tag and a doe tag with regular license purchase? Doe tag is good for any where in the state just like the buck tag.
Cut the wmu tags down use just as bonus. Add 10-15$ to the price and save a lot of stupid waistful steps in time and money.
Or cut the wmu tags out entirely and damp.
 

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And how would you propose they portion the antlerless tags to levels that yield the intended harvest? Yeah, I know.....the PGC "makes up" harvest data. That's a whole other discussion. The point is, they issue the tags as they do so they can "throttle" how many tags go where.

How could that be done in this scenario?

That's why we have antler point restrictions....because that was a clear, simple way to limit buck harvest without making it a drawing to get a buck tag. Imagine if that had been done....wow.
 

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But again, that puts 750,000 (give or take) doe licenses out in circulation that could be used anywhere, regardless of management goals.

Where I hunt, I don't always see deer, but seeing 4-8 deer a day is not anything to take much note of, and 20 a day isn't at all unheard of. Even in flintlock season.

Other areas, people hunt all through all the seasons and don't see 20 deer total. Issuing statewide doe tags will simply muddy those waters farther.
 

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Not really. Anyone who harvests a buck in archery is out. At least 150,000 hunters have no desire to shoot a doe period. Several thousand hunters would pass doe on that tag to hunt for a buck til the last minute then fail to fill it at all. A few thousand would pass on doe to be able to hunt flintlock. A hundred thousand or so never fill a tag, due to very limited time, a crappy spot, or jack daniels....so fewer would be killed on an either sex tag than now. When the hunter shoots a doe, he cant shoot a buck, thus leveling the buck-doe ratio.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Tdd I said use the wmu tags for making up the doe quota they want or damp tags.
The area I hunt in Ohio I can get a buck tag and 2 either sex tags which I can kill2 doe. Over the counter. Other areas you can only get one either sex tag. One doe in that area
 

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Guys, my point isn't what WILL be killed, it's that issuing a statewide doe tag with every license purchase effectively issues 3/4 of a million tags that CAN be used to harvest a doe anywhere. What happens with those tags is not able to be controlled. That's the point to the WMU system where there are quotas to the tags based on regional management goals. Going to statewide antlerless tags undoes that.

Whether that's a good or bad idea is another topic, but issuing said tags creates that scenario....all those tags are eligible for use as doe tags, and what gets used...and where it gets used....is completely uncontrolled.
 

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I sure am glad that the PGC hasn't spent hundreds of thousands of sportsmen's dollars on research into deer management over the past hundred years. What a waste of time and money they made by learning biology, geography, habitat management, math, electronics and statistics. Gee, all we needed to do was ask you all, who spend thirty or forty hours a year actually in the woods. What would work best to manage the entire state's worth of animals (yes, there are other animals in the woods besides deer) not to mention all the other subjects mentioned above. What a dumb idea, thinking that years of continuing research and political compromise might actually produce the stated and intended results. Really fellows, go back and reread the original and updated intentions of the programs you are talking about. The goals are a compromise between all the parties involved. If you are dissatisfied, attend the advisory meeting and voice your desires. Just remember, you might be in the minority.
 

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tdd said:
Guys, my point isn't what WILL be killed, it's that issuing a statewide doe tag with every license purchase effectively issues 3/4 of a million tags that CAN be used to harvest a doe anywhere. What happens with those tags is not able to be controlled. That's the point to the WMU system where there are quotas to the tags based on regional management goals. Going to statewide antlerless tags undoes that.

Whether that's a good or bad idea is another topic, but issuing said tags creates that scenario....all those tags are eligible for use as doe tags, and what gets used...and where it gets used....is completely uncontrolled.
This just made me think of something wild. How about a single wmu specific buck tag. That would get people fired up. Make it a system like the doe tags or a lottery like elk. Might as well manage the bucks as well since the buck tags are uncontrollable as to where they will get used.
 

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If my memory serves me correctly.....lol.....sometimes it doesn't, but in years gone by you actually were eligible to
harvest a doe with your regular license during archery season, provided you had a archery tag. You were eligible to harvest either a doe or buck during archery season as well as flintlock (you still can during that season). I am not sure what year they stopped providing that choice and that was the only deer you were allowed to harvest that year. Buck.....doe your choice. Ah......times gone by
 

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nomad_archer said:
tdd said:
Guys, my point isn't what WILL be killed, it's that issuing a statewide doe tag with every license purchase effectively issues 3/4 of a million tags that CAN be used to harvest a doe anywhere. What happens with those tags is not able to be controlled. That's the point to the WMU system where there are quotas to the tags based on regional management goals. Going to statewide antlerless tags undoes that.

Whether that's a good or bad idea is another topic, but issuing said tags creates that scenario....all those tags are eligible for use as doe tags, and what gets used...and where it gets used....is completely uncontrolled.
This just made me think of something wild. How about a single wmu specific buck tag. That would get people fired up. Make it a system like the doe tags or a lottery like elk. Might as well manage the bucks as well since the buck tags are uncontrollable as to where they will get used.
Excellent point Nomad!!!
 

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Yup, a doe tag with every license?

Ever see Best buy on Black Friday Eve? Or opening day of trout? Yup, that is what you will get. Long lines, porta potties and occasionaly a line jumper.

And anyone who thinks giving up doe tags once you shoot a buck in archery smacks of jealousy.
 

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Run2Catch said:
Not really. Anyone who harvests a buck in archery is out. At least 150,000 hunters have no desire to shoot a doe period. Several thousand hunters would pass doe on that tag to hunt for a buck til the last minute then fail to fill it at all. A few thousand would pass on doe to be able to hunt flintlock. A hundred thousand or so never fill a tag, due to very limited time, a crappy spot, or jack daniels....so fewer would be killed on an either sex tag than now. When the hunter shoots a doe, he cant shoot a buck, thus leveling the buck-doe ratio.
Yeah, ok.
 

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Shed Antler said:
No I meant one with every license just like a buck tag.


Right, and it would be a logistical nightmare for them to police it without the license being WMU specific which have "limits". And my point is if they do that and it would be first come first served, it would be a nightmare for all involved. They cant even get the PALS system to generate enough on a daily basis for trout season let alone on the day hunting licenses go on sale. It just would not hold up. I mean the PALS is no power ball machine. The lines would be terrible and not only would there be lines, you would actually have to take the day off to get a spot in line to get a doe tag. See how that works?
 

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Actually I believe shed antler is suggesting that when you buy your license you get a tag. That simple. No lottery, no standing in line, no mailing a pink envelop. That's what Ohio does it is simple.
 

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I've always thought getting an "anywhere" doe tag with your general hunting license was a good idea. Let us hunters be smart enough to figure out where the deer are and hunt there.
 

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I have always liked the idea of anywhere doe tags.Most hunters hunt where they hunt anyways.They could still track the wmu the deer were killed in by check cards.The biggest reason is I believe the counties derive money from them.We can never kill enough antlerless in southern York county.Drive 5 miles south to Baltimore county its unlimited antlerless with a licence purchase.Not saying Pa should do that just making a statement.
 

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Last I read the Virginia rules, (several years ago) a hunter was required to harvest a doe before he could harvest a buck. That would actually make sense for some areas of PA. Give the license for two deer, but limit/encourage the use of them by management area. Shoot two doe in an overly crowded SRA and get a bonus tag just for helping with management goals.
 
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