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Discussion Starter #1
Crossbow Industry To Set Standards

As interest in crossbow hunting continues to rapidly expand across North America at an unprecedented rate, manufacturers continue to push the engineering envelope to produce the fastest, lightest, narrowest, and most powerful crossbows the world has ever known. As additional states and Providences lessen their restrictions on the use of horizontal archery equipment, it’s imperative that safety and ethics become the leading force of the crossbow movement.

Recently the North American Crossbow Federation (NACF) announced the formation of a standards committee to develop an American National Standard (ANS) on criteria for evaluation of crossbow designs under conditions of reasonably foreseeable use and abuse by users. The development of the standard will follow consensus procedures authored by the NACF and accredited by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI).

The ANSI coordinates, facilitates, and promotes the development of voluntary consensus standards that are relied upon by industry, government agencies, and consumers across the United States and around the world. ANSI also accredits organizations, such as the NACF, to develop standards under procedures meeting ANSI Essential Requirements.

According to Merle Shepard of the NACF, the NACF achieved accreditation from ANSI as a standards developer in order to pursue the development of voluntary standards that provide the crossbow designer and manufacturer with recommendations for test procedures to evaluate the safety and performance of crossbows. He further said, this is the first standard NACF will develop under its new procedures. We are all looking forward to working as an industry to improve crossbow function and safety.

The NACF now has in place the required ANSI mandated balance of consensus committee members. Five NACF manufacturer members and ten consensus committee members make up the consensus committee of which yours truly is one of. Consensus is established when, in the judgment of the ANSI Board of Standards Review, substantial agreement has been reached by directly and materially affected interests. Substantial agreement means much more than simple majority, but not necessarily unanimity. Consensus requires that all views and objections be considered and that a concerted effort be made toward their resolution.

An American National Standard will imply a consensus of those substantially concerned with its scope and provisions. The data presented in ANSI/NACF Standard Committee is directed solely to the needs and interest of commercial manufacturers of crossbows. It does not provide techniques or specifications for design or manufacturing nor does it imply that crossbows not meeting this standard are necessarily unsafe.

Approval of an American National Standard requires verification by ANSI that the requirements for due process, consensus, and other criteria for approval have been met by the standards developer. In order to comply with the voluntary standard or a portion thereof, a crossbow must perform in such a manner as to meet the minimum acceptable test result for the subject mechanism.

Several Standard Committee meetings have already been held in 2018 as well as the annual NACF meeting held at the Archery Trade Association Show in Indianapolis earlier this year.

The North American Crossbow Federation (NACF) is a not-for-profit organization whose purpose is to advocate for the safe use of crossbows for recreation and as a legal hunting tool for any licensed hunter during all seasons in which archery equipment is permitted.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The treestand industry has the Treestand Manufacturer's Association. A TMA stamp of approval tells the consumer and retailer that a product has met established safety standards. Many retailers will not sell products without this certification. It will be interesting to see which crossbow manufacturers come on board moving forward.

For crossbows, there most likely will be arrow weight standards set when advertising speed and standards set for advertising bow weight. Some manufacturers rate the speed of their crossbows with 350 grain arrows and others rate theirs with 410 grain arrows. Some advertise bow weights using a bare bow but that is not revealed in the advertising.

Safety standards will probably also come for safeties, anti dry fires, triggers etc.... which include testing under various circumstances to ensure safety.
 

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I actually featured this in my last newsletter. It's a great idea if it gains traction. I'm glad to see they are making an effort towards this.
 

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with the race on to see who can manufacture the fastest quietest most compact cross bows, should the name be changed to --------- and need to be registered like a fire arms since eventually they will be shooting a hundred yards with speed and accuracy of darn near a bullet in the future and silent to boot. a line will have to be drawn.
 

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with the race on to see who can manufacture the fastest quietest most compact cross bows, should the name be changed to --------- and need to be registered like a fire arms since eventually they will be shooting a hundred yards with speed and accuracy of darn near a bullet in the future and silent to boot. a line will have to be drawn.
I think we may already be there: Ravin Crossbows - Powered by HeliCoil Technology
 

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Ravin's advertisement is more hype than reality. Their fastest speed is 430fps; a 22 rimfire is about 1200fps. There are archers who can, under ideal conditions, shoot softball sized groups at 100 yards with a tournament recurve bow. If you follow the bolt trajectory in the Ravin video, you can see it's at least 6 to 10 FEET high at mid-trajectory. Hardly an efficient 100 yard weapon.
 

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I was at Lancaster Archery Supply yesterday and had a discussion with the sales staff who are all expert archers with bows and crossbows. We talked about Ravin's hype in advertisement and all involved in the conversation did not like the way they are promoting their crossbows. They make a point to tell customers who want to or who buy a Ravin cross bow that there is a huge difference between shooting at a target at 100 yards and shooting at game at one hundred yards and they discourage trying to take an animal at that range.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
with the race on to see who can manufacture the fastest quietest most compact cross bows, should the name be changed to --------- and need to be registered like a fire arms since eventually they will be shooting a hundred yards with speed and accuracy of darn near a bullet in the future and silent to boot. a line will have to be drawn.
Here is the aiming point at 100 yards for a crossbow that shoots 420fps or so. As you can see, they are not even close to rifles, despite those that wish to try to make that claim.
 

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with the race on to see who can manufacture the fastest quietest most compact cross bows, should the name be changed to --------- and need to be registered like a fire arms since eventually they will be shooting a hundred yards with speed and accuracy of darn near a bullet in the future and silent to boot. a line will have to be drawn.
Here is the aiming point at 100 yards for a crossbow that shoots 420fps or so. As you can see, they are not even close to rifles, despite those that wish to try to make that claim.
Looks like a demonstration of mid range trajectory to me. With a laser range finder and some of today's optics they certainly are comparable to today's rifles.

No different than a rifle shooting 400- 500 yards or more. You will have a large trajectory.

A crossbow that will shoot a 3 inch group at 100 yards is better than some cheap rifles I have seen being used.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Looks like a demonstration of mid range trajectory to me. With a laser range finder and some of today's optics they certainly are comparable to today's rifles.
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LOL.............. You kinda forgot that the deer can move after the shot and before the arrow gets there. That the arc of the arrow mandates and much larger shooting window than with a rifle. That a precise distance measurement is required with most crossbows past 40 yards. That a hunter is likely to only get off one shot with a crossbow. You also forgot to mention that a rifle kills by hemorrhage and hydrostatic shock, so a hit outside of the vitals can still result in a swift kill. Among other things.........

Yeah, they are just like rifles.......................
 

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Looks like a demonstration of mid range trajectory to me. With a laser range finder and some of today's optics they certainly are comparable to today's rifles.

No different than a rifle shooting 400- 500 yards or more. You will have a large trajectory.

A crossbow that will shoot a 3 inch group at 100 yards is better than some cheap rifles I have seen being used.


The above reasoning, or lack there of, is why Ravin should never have put out the 100 yard nonsense without a disclaimer for hunting. There are People who can't tell the difference between shooting are something that can't move and a live animal. Thousands if feet per second is a whole lot different than 420 fps.
 

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I just ordered the new TenPoint Nitro this week. Should be here in May. It is advertised at 10fps faster than the Ravin and I can tell you firmly that I have no intention at all of shooting anywhere near 100 yards with it.
To the OP though, setting these standards is a good idea.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I just ordered the new TenPoint Nitro this week. Should be here in May. It is advertised at 10fps faster than the Ravin and I can tell you firmly that I have no intention at all of shooting anywhere near 100 yards with it.
To the OP though, setting these standards is a good idea.
Dang man. You went all out. Let us know your thoughts when you get some range time with it. Best of luck with it this coming hunting season.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
[/B]
The above reasoning, or lack there of, is why Ravin should never have put out the 100 yard nonsense without a disclaimer for hunting. There are People who can't tell the difference between shooting are something that can't move and a live animal. Thousands if feet per second is a whole lot different than 420 fps.
Agreed. The picture I posted is the President of TenPoint. Even though they also make very fast crossbows, they never condone long range shooting at game. He was giving a talk about that topic and did that demonstration to illustrate how much drop actually exists at 100 yards.
 

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with the race on to see who can manufacture the fastest quietest most compact cross bows, should the name be changed to --------- and need to be registered like a fire arms since eventually they will be shooting a hundred yards with speed and accuracy of darn near a bullet in the future and silent to boot. a line will have to be drawn.
Here is the aiming point at 100 yards for a crossbow that shoots 420fps or so. As you can see, they are not even close to rifles, despite those that wish to try to make that claim.
Looks like a demonstration of mid range trajectory to me. With a laser range finder and some of today's optics they certainly are comparable to today's rifles.

No different than a rifle shooting 400- 500 yards or more. You will have a large trajectory.

A crossbow that will shoot a 3 inch group at 100 yards is better than some cheap rifles I have seen being used.
You had a chance to make a valid point here but missed a little...in my mind it is not the rifles but the operators.

I find flintlock rifles intersting in the context of these discussions? Not the guns but their accuracy in the field, lots of running shots on drives, etc.
More interesting is peoples attitude toward that has always bothered me a bit. Very blase about misses, just an aw shucks kind of thing. Seen it in person and many flintlock season videos.
 

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Looks like a demonstration of mid range trajectory to me. With a laser range finder and some of today's optics they certainly are comparable to today's rifles.
.
LOL.............. You kinda forgot that the deer can move after the shot and before the arrow gets there. That the arc of the arrow mandates and much larger shooting window than with a rifle. That a precise distance measurement is required with most crossbows past 40 yards. That a hunter is likely to only get off one shot with a crossbow. You also forgot to mention that a rifle kills by hemorrhage and hydrostatic shock, so a hit outside of the vitals can still result in a swift kill. Among other things.........

Yeah, they are just like rifles.......................

The linked Raven video and my post are in reference to shooting at a stationary target. The basic operation of the rifle and crossbow are closely related because they both expell a projectile.

You incorrectly assumed that I support the use of a crossbow for hunting deer at these distances .
 

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Discussion Starter #20
You incorrectly assumed that I support the use of a crossbow for hunting deer at these distances .
I never made that assumption........... My response was in reference to you implying a rifle and crossbow were similar. What I did assume what that you meant they were similar in hunting situations since you mentioned the rangefinder.
 
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