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Discussion Starter #1
Wonder if I could take the dogs out to the game land and work a couple birds before the season opens tomorrow?

Little pre season warm up before the madness
 

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No.

Technically it is a violation to train on released game birds (pheasant and/or quail) unless under permit (field trial, dog training, etc.) or it is done during the established season and you follow bag limits (assuming you shoot them). Dog training on SGL during the entire month of October is prohibited.
 

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Take a shotgun with 8-shot and "hunt" woodcock. Who knows, you might actually stumble upon an early flight bird.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Well the book states that there is no closed season for dog training. Dog training on SGL are only closed from the Monday prior to the start of youth pheasant until the close of youth pheasant.

The way I read it, their is not a problem with it. Just wanted to see what others thought.

Im not carrying a gun, just taking the dog out to find some birds.
 

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The book should be updated. Read Executive Bird Order below (in effect since Jan 2009). So yes there is a problem with it.

The PGC stocks birds for hunter enjoyment. They don't stock them for guys to train dogs on. Leave the birds alone and hunt em up tomorrow. Your tuning up should be done already.

COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA
PENNSYLVANIA GAME COMMISSION

AUTHORIZATION TO RELEASE CAPTIVE BIRDS
ON STATE GAME LANDS


ORDER

WHEREAS, The Pennsylvania Game Commission (Commission) has determined that the hunting and/or training of dogs on artificially propagated live birds is a wholesome activity enjoyed by many thousands of Pennsylvanians; and
WHEREAS, Section 102 of the Game and Wildlife Code (hereinafter Game Code) defines, inter alia, pheasants, bobwhite quail and chukar partridges as "wild birds" (34 Pa.C.S. § 102 (relating to definitions));
WHEREAS, Section 2303 of the Agricultural Code generally defines, inter alia, rock pigeons (a.k.a. rock doves) as a "domestic animal" (3 Pa.C.S. § 2303 (relating to definitions));
WHEREAS, Section 137.2(a) of the Pennsylvania Code specifically authorizes the release of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail and chukar partridges on public (other than state game lands) or private lands for dog training and/or hunting purposes (58 Pa. Code § 137.2(a)); and
WHEREAS, Section 135.41(c)(13) of the Pennsylvania Code specifically prohibits the release of captive bred or captive raised wildlife or domestic animals on state game lands without the express written permission of the Director (58 Pa. Code § 135.41(c)(13)); and
WHEREAS, The Commission recognizes that state game lands provide some of the best upland bird habitat found within the Commonwealth suitable for the hunting and/or training of dogs on artificially propagated live birds; and
WHEREAS, The Commission has recognized a growing interest in the public's ability to utilize state game lands for the release of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons for hunting and/or dog training purposes; and
WHEREAS, The Commission is aware of no scientific evidence indicating that the release of healthy captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons into the wild poses any significant threat to the health and wellbeing of the Commonwealth's wildlife resources and/or their respective habitats; and
WHEREAS, The Game Code (34 Pa.C.S. §§ 101 et seq.) and its attendant regulations (58 Pa. Code §§ 131.1 et seq.) collectively provide broad authority to the Commission to regulate activities relating to the protection, preservation and management of all game and wildlife and their respective habitats (C.f. 34 Pa.C.S. §§ 322, 2101 and 2102); and
WHEREAS, In an effort to support and encourage the hunting and/or training of dogs on artificially propagated live birds, the Commission has determined that it is willing to relax regulatory restrictions on the release of captive bred or captive raised wildlife or domestic animals on state game lands by providing the following express written permission to specifically authorize the release of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons on state game lands for hunting and/or dog training purposes; and
NOW THEREFORE, I, Carl G. Roe, Executive Director of the Pennsylvania Game Commission, pursuant to the authority vested in me by the Game Code and its attendant regulations, do hereby authorize the release of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons on state game lands for hunting and/or dog training purposes as follows:
1. Only licensed hunters or persons acting under the authority of a valid field dog trial permit shall be eligible to participate in the release of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons on state game lands for hunting and/or dog training purposes.
2. Except as provided in paragraph five (5) below, eligible persons releasing captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants or bobwhite quail on state game lands during closed seasons for the same shall apply for and receive a field dog trial permit from the Commission prior to engaging in release activities (See 34 Pa.C.S. §§ 2943 (relating to field dog trials) and 2944 (relating to field dog trials for retrievers)).
3. Except as provided in paragraph five (5) below, eligible persons releasing captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants or bobwhite quail on state game lands during open seasons for the same are encouraged, but not required, to apply for and receive a field dog trial permit from the Commission prior to engaging in release activities. However, should a field dog trial permit not be obtained, all daily and field possession bag limits for each respective species, as found in Section 139.4 of the Pennsylvania Code, shall apply in full force and effect (58 Pa. Code § 139.4).
4. Except as provided in paragraph five (5) below, eligible persons may release captive bred or captive raised chukar partridges and rock pigeons on state game lands through out the duration of the license year without the need for obtaining a field dog trial permit.
5. The release of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons on state game lands for hunting and/or dog training purposes during the entire month of October remains expressly prohibited without a field dog trial permit. The issuance of a field dog trial permit during the month of October will be predicated upon the absence of any pheasant stocking activities in the near area as determined by the Commission.
6. All takings of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons pursuant to this order shall be conducted in conformance with the limitations of Section 2308 of the Game Code (34 Pa.C.S. § 2308 (relating to unlawful devices and methods)) and Sections 141.20 and 141.22 of the Pennsylvania Code (58 Pa. Code §§ 141.20 (relating to protective material required) and 141.22 (relating to small game)).
7. This Order shall not be construed in any manner to permit the hunting or taking of wild game or wildlife in any manner inconsistent with the Game Code or its attendant regulations. Specifically, this Order shall not be construed in any manner to abrogate or diminish any current or future limitations or prohibitions on the hunting or taking of pheasants, the release of artificially propagated live pheasants or the training of dogs within any area designated as a wild pheasant recovery area.
8. This Order shall not be construed in any manner to limit the Commission’s authority to establish additional or further authorizations or limitations relating to the release of artificially propagated live birds on state game lands for hunting and/or dog training purposes.
9. This Order is effective immediately and shall remain in effect until rescinded or modified by subsequent order.
Given under my hand and seal of the Pennsylvania Game Commission on this _____ day of _______________ 200__.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the clarification. I was reading out of the digest. Is there another rules and reg. book?

Id rather not hunt them tomorrow. To many people out and not enjoyable.
 

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I don't blame you. First day could be nuts.

I am not sure why they do not update the digest. There is conflicting information and very unclear to hunters and dog handlers. This type question comes up a lot.

It's been said that you can find that information from the PGC website but I am not sure exactly where. I do know that there is more law information that could be found on the site.
 

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everything is included in
titles 34 of the game and wildlife code
and title 58 of penn code
most is in title 34

but of course everything related to game and hunting is under there, and digesting lawyer speak isn't easy.

that said I think its legal to run them sunday,long as your not hunting
 

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I asked the PGC directly (email) and got this response about training dogs on released chukar and pigeons:

Good morning Mr. *****,
Chukars or pigeons may be used for dog training on SGLs and may be shot at any time of the year except the month of October (due to the stocking of pheasants pre-season in October) including Sundays. A hunting license and all legal firearms and orange regulations must be complied with. Pheasants or quail, or any other birds, may not be used without field trial permits. Persons engaging in this activity must understand that they do not have the exclusive rights to use the area, and if they stock birds, other hunters may take them. Once the birds are released they are not considered private property.

Please contact the appropriate region office for more details. Region office contact information can be found at http://tiny.cc/ROffice.
Kindly,
[email protected]
 

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I believe this is in effect saying anyone who wants can release pheasants during season on a sgl . I guess this is how they allow the sportsmen clubs to do it without a lot of red tape and permitting. I guess anyone could do it without a permit although they recommended it.
 

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We saw a guy doing this on a local SGL yesterday after they stocked birds earlier this week. About all he was accomplishing while "working" his pair of labs was pushing birds off the SGL onto private property where hunters can't get to them when the season opens.

It sounds like it was illegal, and I wish I knew that at the time, as I would have called it into the local WCO. PGC is putting out a ton of birds for guys to hunt and work their dogs. Why not wait till Monday (if you don't like the first day crowd) when they are in season instead of pushing them off the SGL without a possible shot/harvest?

Utilizing the woodcock hunt moniker to work your dog on pheasants before the season comes off as Bush League to me...wait till the crowd passes and then hunt with your dog.
 

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Funny thing is when I called the PGC about guys hunting newly released pheasants earlier this week the guy at the Northeast office first said they're probably deer hunting. To which I said, with their dogs? Then he said "they're probably just running their dogs." I replied, "with a shotgun on their shoulder?" He then said they would probably have someone check it out but I seriously doubt anyone did because he really didn't seem to interested in my report and made every suggestion he could that if was something else.
 
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