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Discussion Starter #1
As Remington is beginning to drop the 260 Remington out of there lineup I was thinking. Would they have done any better by standardizing the .25 Souper instead? Is there any market for any new cartridge? I mean we've seen the demise of the RSAUM's and the .30 TC and the .450 Marlin. Who believes the RCM's or 338 Federal or Marlin's 308 and 338 MX's are going to succeed? Are there any holes in the current linup that could be filled? I for one would like to see the .25 Souper but I have no confidence that any new cartridge will catch on anymore.
 

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I see the winchester short mags sticking around, way too many rifles have been sold in those calibers for them not too, imo. The remingtons never quite took off except the ultra mags, which appear to be doing okay. I have high hopes for the 308 marlin express as I think its a great "niche" catridge for those lever actions, but I'm probably going to be diappointed. We're kinda at that point, and been there for awhile, where we just plain have catridges for every purpose. The 17hmr and the short mags were about the only really "new" craze in cartridges in a long time, and I think the reason they had such tremendous success was because they were so radically different than anything else... handgun catrridges are kinda at the same point. We already have everything and the kitchen sink. What's next, a .72 caliber S&W that only Sumo wrestlers can shoot without permanent skeletal damage? I have suspected for a while that esp with the recent attacks on lead, that we will soon see the development of tungsten (or at least tungsten cored) centerfire bullets. It would be interesting to see what they could do. Imagine a typical .30 cal bullet of 180 grain dimensions, but weighing well over 250 grains. It could open a whole new door of bullet weight choices, esp for samll caliber rifles. Imagine what the .243 could be capable of with 150 grain bullets as opposed to their current upper limit of about 100 grains. Just my ramblings....
 

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25 Souper....As a kid in Shamokin, we had a gunsmith who had a shop right across the street...This 25 Souper is all that he ever talked about, and absolutely swore by it.

I think that we have run the gamut of "308 based" cartridges, and it's a mystery why some have flourished(243 and 7mm-08), while others have fallen by the wayside (260, 338 Federal, and 358).Being a betting man, I'm afraid the the 25 Souper wouldn't fare much better than the 260 did.

So the question remains....What would sell? The answer is, of course, combining elements of the popular and successful trends..I think that the highly popular Remington 7600 pump rifles combined with, say, the 7 MM Remington Magnum or 300 Winchester cartridge would generate sales based solely on the magnum fascination we witness today.Seems everybody "needs" a magnum..Why not put one in something besides a bolt or a single shot?
 

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Yes I believe there is a place for some new cartridges. I am not familiar with your 25 Souper, but I still believe there are niches left.

I think a 6.5 caliber based on the 30-06 cartrdige would be a good sell. The 6.5-06 is a great cartridge choice IMO.

I also believe their is alot of room for smaller cartridges like a 20 caliber, and a 17 caliber based on the Hornet or Bee brass.

I believe there are several holes to fill in the cartridge comunity. Yes most all have been wildcatted, but factory production lends greatly to success.

I never understood why the 225 Winchester did not flourish?? Personally I like rimmed cartridges. But then I am a fan of single shots. Tom.
 

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I think the biggest problem with some of these new cartidges is the fact that many gun shops just don't carry them. Most around here only stock guns they know will turn over. Most don't want to take the chance of one sitting in the case for months.

Another problem is ammo price and availability. Why would someone want to spend $30 for a box of 260 Remington when they could spend $18 for a box of 243 or 308? There are also many more choices in loads for these time tested and proven rounds. Lets face it, most people want a cartridge that can be picked up at any place that carries ammo. With some ammo you either need to pay high $$$ local or mail order it. Too much hassle when another cartridgge will do the same thing.

Another thing that probably doesn't help is that there are a bunch of low cost rifles out there now that are only chambered in a few offerings...223, 22-250, 243, 308, 270 and 30-06. I've wanted a 22 hornet for years, but all the guns made today are more money than I can justify paying for one. I'll probably end up with a 223 only because the guns are more readily available.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
HOGGHEAD said:
Yes I believe there is a place for some new cartridges. I am not familiar with your 25 Souper, but I still believe there are niches left.

I think a 6.5 caliber based on the 30-06 cartrdige would be a good sell. The 6.5-06 is a great cartridge choice IMO.

I also believe their is alot of room for smaller cartridges like a 20 caliber, and a 17 caliber based on the Hornet or Bee brass.

I believe there are several holes to fill in the cartridge comunity. Yes most all have been wildcatted, but factory production lends greatly to success.

I never understood why the 225 Winchester did not flourish?? Personally I like rimmed cartridges. But then I am a fan of single shots. Tom.

The .25 Souper is the .308 Winchester necked down to .257.

I also like the idea of the 6.5-06 but I don't think it would sell. 6.5's just don't.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Big Ken said:
25 Souper....As a kid in Shamokin, we had a gunsmith who had a shop right across the street...This 25 Souper is all that he ever talked about, and absolutely swore by it.

I think that we have run the gamut of "308 based" cartridges, and it's a mystery why some have flourished(243 and 7mm-08), while others have fallen by the wayside (260, 338 Federal, and 358).Being a betting man, I'm afraid the the 25 Souper wouldn't fare much better than the 260 did.

So the question remains....What would sell? The answer is, of course, combining elements of the popular and successful trends..I think that the highly popular Remington 7600 pump rifles combined with, say, the 7 MM Remington Magnum or 300 Winchester cartridge would generate sales based solely on the magnum fascination we witness today.Seems everybody "needs" a magnum..Why not put one in something besides a bolt or a single shot?

I don't think even a magnum pump would sell. I think the age of the pump is past and I base that assumption off the fact that 4 out of 5 pumps I see in the woods are still the older 760 version. And I can remember when Shyda's in Lebanon would carry four or five pump rifles and now they only carry one at a time.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I for one am really happy that the .25-06 is holding it's own but I'd like to see a resurgence of the .280 Remington, which I believe at least theoretically it is a better choice than either the .270 or the .30-06.
 

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Over the last 50 years or so the folks who bring out the "new & improved" cartridges have pretty much filled the gaps. Wildcats fill most if not all the little niches left. My guess is that very few "new" ('cause there isn't that much really new that hasn't been already thought of) will make the long run. Just too much out there that already does the job. A lot of folks will always buy the "new" simply because it's new and they want to be different. And that's okay as it's fun and keeps the manufacturers in business. But the vast majority of new cartridges will end up on the bone pile. I believe that new innovations in powder in existing cartridges will be the wave of the future. We've already seen how far bullets have come in the last decade or so. Having said that a 25 Copperhead in a CZ 527 would be fun to play with!

Muab Dib
 

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IMO the gun makers know what will or will not sell and they want to sell guns. Look at the ol stand buys .243,270,06. Now look at what was, 6mm,.260,.280. Loads of good cals. went to the farm cause they weren't on the shelf at local shops. Everyone has their fav. and their why. It's like the 17 rim fire just can'y push the 22mag. over the edge. Gun nuts have their own reasons for likein what they do but gun Co.'s look at $$$$. It took Remington a good while to factory a 25.06 and it panned out for them. IMO the short mags. struggle to sell guns even with all the hoopla. Also IMO short fat cartridge's are hard feedin for follow up shots. I was up deer huntin one time and a guy went in a hardware store and bought a box of .270 win. for his .270 short mag. (true) we made fun of it but he bought the gun cause a guy told him it's the latest!!! What he should have got was a Win. So many guys in Pa. have an 22, 06, and a 12ga. good to go. IMO it would be to pick a 25.06 or a 6.5 Creedmore a necked up .250 Savage Improved, the 25.06 for huntin and the Creedmore for shootin with a 120 gr. bt. The .308, 30.06 case's have run their course in new calibers. It's a tough call??...later
 

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Personally i am NOT a fan of the new odd-ball calibers they come up with ,, many say ( new and Improved ) but mainly just new and NOT improved ENOUGH to make a real difference .
when you stick with common Already built calibers you keep cost down and availiblity up .this principle applies to about everything in todays world ,, if more things where standerdized i think the world would be better off
 

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It seems that we may well be at the end of the age where new cartridges are going to take the world by storm, at least with modern gunpowder driven bullets..Maybe someday some new projectile technology will develop and then a whole new market wil be spawned...But for now just enjoy using what works for you and if you want to try something else, there are plenty of choices out there for sure.
 

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Dave2pa said:
many say ( new and Improved ) but mainly just new and NOT improved ENOUGH to make a real difference .
That about sums it up.
 

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Dogface said:
Dave2pa said:
many say ( new and Improved ) but mainly just new and NOT improved ENOUGH to make a real difference .
That about sums it up.
I agree also. With the popular calibers you have a huge selection of ammo available that you can cater it to different species. For example the .243 you have alot of varmit loads available or you can go to the heavier bullets for deer hunting. You can also find ammo that is extremely cheap on sale if you are looking to just shoot some targets also. The oddball calibers you very seldom ever find discounted ammo.
 

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Also when an odd caliber is discontinued, the rifles made
for it suddenly sky rocket in price and everyone has to
own one.
 

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Jericho said:
Also when an odd caliber is discontinued, the rifles made
for it suddenly sky rocket in price and everyone has to
own one.
And I have them all !..Here's a tip..Start buying up 338 Federals !
 

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Tried to buy a Ruger 77/17HM2 lately? Especially the
green laminate/heavy barrel model.
I wonder what Savage Model 25s in 5.7mm will be worth
in a few years?
 
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