The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community banner

101 - 120 of 145 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,269 Posts
Discussion Starter · #101 ·
yep, lets go to a complete electronic on line world. thats a one stop shop for hackers !! they even want "covid trackers" on your cell phone. "covid passports" and "real ID's"

yepper, do it all online electronically....lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
392 Posts
There was a time I'd fill out a paper application and send a check to AZ, NM, CO, UT, WY, and MT. I'd worry if it got there, hope I didn't make a mistake, etc. now I apply online and the application won't allow you to advance to the next step if you make a mistake. Did I like the old way......sure it helped my draw odds because you had to front the money and was a bit more difficult. Did I have a fit as all those states went to online apps.? Nope I just adjusted with the times. The doe license system in PA is a relic. Heck my kids don't even have checkbooks. I get all the doe tags I need under the current system, but have no issue with it being brought up to today's standards.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,269 Posts
Discussion Starter · #105 ·
if it moves to online sales only i wont buy any doe tags. i will just wait and go for doe during red tag :) besides that...its free :) :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,256 Posts
I have always been open to improvements and fixing something that isn't working. But those key words of improvements and fixing are rather important if you are talking about changes.

I have seen what the plan was if they change the antlerless issuing system and it gets removed from the County Treasurers. In my opinion it is not an improvement and isn't fixing anything. In fact I think it will be much more problematic that what we currently have.

Change is only a good thing when it is an improvement from what you already have.

Dick Bodenhorn
Now you mention you saw a plan that in your opinion won't be an improvement or is possibly more problematic but you offer no details? Kinda convenient don't ya think? Is this supposed plan now or from when you were a WCO? You're basically saying the PGC is incapable of implementing a system of distribution for doe tags without control from the County Treasurer's offices? Yet they're able to do so for all other licenses and permits.

And Dick the fact is the current system is incredibly inefficient and man-hour intensive from a processing standpoint. The only way to call it easy and inexpensive is to completely ignore the man hours for each employee in each County Treasurer's office it takes to process the tags in each round.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GSP66

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,234 Posts
Now you mention you saw a plan that in your opinion won't be an improvement or is possibly more problematic but you offer no details? Kinda convenient don't ya think? Is this supposed plan now or from when you were a WCO? You're basically saying the PGC is incapable of implementing a system of distribution for doe tags without control from the County Treasurer's offices? Yet they're able to do so for all other licenses and permits.

And Dick the fact is the current system is incredibly inefficient and man-hour intensive from a processing standpoint. The only way to call it easy and inexpensive is to completely ignore the man hours for each employee in each County Treasurer's office it takes to process the tags in each round.
The plan was that the antlerless license would be issued based on a random computer selection in a manner that anyone from the first to the last person to apply for any unit might get rejected for their unit of choice but would instead be awarded a license for their second or even third unit choice even while the unit of choice still had unsold permits.

That would do two things. The first thing it would accomplish would be to create a lot more unsatisfied and complaining hunters than we already have with the current system. The second thing it would result in is having more hunters who killed deer in the unit they wanted to hunt in the first place, but couldn't get a license for, and using the a tag from the wrong unit on. That then results in poor harvest data and poor the potential for incorrect management decisions due to having inaccurate harvest data.

If they were to changed that process to a first come first serve process then you are going to have hundreds of thousands of people trying to get into the PALs system all at the same time trying to get a license before they are all sold out for their unit of choice. There would also be miles long lines at the various issuing agencies by those who couldn't get logged into the computer system to get their antlerless licenses. There would be fights and probably even blood shed in those lines.

I saw lines like that before with people standing in line for hours just so they could get into the County Treasurer's office and hand in their application before someone else even though they couldn't get their license issued on that day. It was not a pretty scene nor one that put hunters in a very positive light.

What is inefficient about the current antlerless issuance process? It doesn't really cost the Game Commission or the hunters anymore than it would for any other entity to handle the issuing process.

The fact is the County Treasurers get one dollar for each license transaction. Most of them welcome that income. Any County Treasurer that wants to opt out of issuing them certainly can and I believe a few have. So the complaint of it being expense or less than the most efficient process is rather moot as long as the people doing the work aren't dissatisfied with the process.

The FACT is the current process has worked with very, very few incidents or problems, it isn't broken and would be darn hard to replace with a better or more fair process.

Dick Bodenhorn
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,478 Posts
I have received my antlerless licenses my entire hunting life under the current process. I have never made a mistake filling them out like some seem to have all the time. I have never been offended by the pink envelopes. I have sent to about 12 different county treasurers over the years and have never been rejected for a license unless it was a later round when I knew there was a decent chance of not being drawn anyway. I have never gotten hand cramps from writing checks and have never gone broke from paying for stamps.
Conversely, I have bought licenses online and have twice had problems. Once I bought the second spring gobbler tag about a month after my regular license, was charged for it and never received it. I had to call the PGC licensing folks to get it straightened out before spring turkey season. Another time, I bought my entire license online and never received it for over a month and it was getting awful close to the first round of antlerless time. Again, I had to call the PGC licensing to get it straightened out. Which they did both times.
Judge for yourself which one of those processes has been "more efficient" for me.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,234 Posts
I have received my antlerless licenses my entire hunting life under the current process. I have never made a mistake filling them out like some seem to have all the time. I have never been offended by the pink envelopes. I have sent to about 12 different county treasurers over the years and have never been rejected for a license unless it was a later round when I knew there was a decent chance of not being drawn anyway. I have never gotten hand cramps from writing checks and have never gone broke from paying for stamps.
Conversely, I have bought licenses online and have twice had problems. Once I bought the second spring gobbler tag about a month after my regular license, was charged for it and never received it. I had to call the PGC licensing folks to get it straightened out before spring turkey season. Another time, I bought my entire license online and never received it for over a month and it was getting awful close to the first round of antlerless time. Again, I had to call the PGC licensing to get it straightened out. Which they did both times.
Judge for yourself which one of those processes has been "more efficient" for me.
My experiences are about the same as your. I have been getting antlerless licenses through the County Treasurer process for sixty years and never once had a problem.

I bought license twice on line and one of those two times I had a very difficult time, multiple phone calls and nearly two months later before I actually got my licenses in the mail. I will NEVER opt to buy my license through the PALs system again.

Dick Bodenhorn
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,256 Posts
So you reportedly saw some plan many years ago but haven't seen anything currently proposed.

And I think you need to get out of the comfort of your quaint Elk County because I have news for ya, in the special reg counties when OTC sales begin hunters already line up outside the county treasurer's office to fill out applications and buy tags. I've certainly seen it at the Northampton County Courthouse.

And like I said one has to purposely ignore the amount of man hours County treasurer's offices spend just processing doe tags to think there isn't a more efficient way. Employees have to receive the envelopes, open them, process the application and check, print out the tags and put them in the envelope, reseal it and send it back out in the mail. I think there is a more efficient way of distributing tags by eliminating the CT offices and it seems at least one legislator does too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,478 Posts
I think there is a more efficient way of distributing tags by eliminating the CT offices and it seems at least one legislator does too.
This is not the first time a legislator has made the proposal. Yet it's been shot down every time before. Like I said earlier, politicians will not take any money out of the hands of other politicians.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,132 Posts
I think I'm gonna start a Kickstarter fund to buy up the old rights to "Columbia House" and restart the mail-order cassette business. Maybe even expand it into 8-tracks.
I think there's a gold mine's worth of potential buyers here in PA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,269 Posts
Discussion Starter · #115 ·
if the county treasurers dont hate all the work they have to do for 1.00 why should we complain when the same work gets us a whole deer. (if you know what you're doing)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,132 Posts
if the county treasurers dont hate all the work they have to do for 1.00 why should we complain when the same work gets us a whole deer. (if you know what you're doing)
A long-time very close friend of the family was a CT upstate for many, many years before his passing.
He absolutely despised doe tag application season. His only silver lining in it was all the free meals he got and his wife got in the weeks leading up from countless long-time friends that happened to also be hunters...
Those free meals dried up when the system changed to WMU's and any CT issuing any tag.
He despised the process even more then.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,256 Posts
This is not the first time a legislator has made the proposal. Yet it's been shot down every time before. Like I said earlier, politicians will not take any money out of the hands of other politicians.
Oh I know but I think you might agree times are changing. For a long time we didn't believe there'd be any movement on Sunday hunting but there has been and it continues.

Will it bother me if this CT pink mail-in system doesn't go away? Not really but that doesn't mean I'd still rather see a less cumbersome system in place using the PALS system more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,840 Posts
And like I said one has to purposely ignore the amount of man hours County treasurer's offices spend just processing doe tags to think there isn't a more efficient way. Employees have to receive the envelopes, open them, process the application and check, print out the tags and put them in the envelope, reseal it and send it back out in the mail. I think there is a more efficient way of distributing tags by eliminating the CT offices and it seems at least one legislator does too.
Actually Mullery's suggested plan is a lot less efficient then the current process. Mullrery's plan will only eliminate a few seconds of work; opening the envelope, putting the completed license back in the envelope, sealing the envelope. Yet will add at least a hour of time to the applicants responsibilities; driving to and from the store, waiting in line.

I cant speak for everyone, but I know I would rather spend 5 minutes at home to complete my end of the process versus driving to the store and waiting in line.

Good luck, Tony
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,132 Posts
I cant speak for everyone, but I know I would rather spend 5 minutes at home to complete my end of the process versus driving to the store and waiting in line.

Good luck, Tony
No lines in front of my tablet or laptop..... takes less than a minute to log into the shop and make a purchase.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,840 Posts
No lines in front of my tablet or laptop..... takes less than a minute to log into the shop and make a purchase.
Six of one, half dozen of another.

So you saved a minute by not completing the SASE part of the application process. But now the person who processed your online application gets extra work of addressing and adding postage.

I dont see that being any more "Efficient" than the current process.

Good luck, Tony
 
101 - 120 of 145 Posts
Top