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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I saw in the digest that a legal broadhead is as follows:

"Shall have...at least two cutting edges located on the same plane throughout the length of the cutting surface..."

Can somebody elaborate? Does this mean the common 3 blade broadheads are illegal because each blade is on a different plane? My interpretation is that only 4 or 2 blade broadheads are legal, but this doesn't seem logical.
 

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I believe it is referring to each individual blade. Meaning that a blade must be straight along its entire length, not twisted like the Crimson Talon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
dpms said:
I believe it is referring to each individual blade. Meaning that a blade must be straight along its entire length, not twisted like the Crimson Talon.
Interesting. I never would have thought of it that way. If you are correct, I can think of much clearer ways to explain that regulation.
 

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There was a debate about this a few years ago on here. Centered around the Crimson Talon heads. For the life of me I can't remember the details, but I'm pretty sure the CT heads were specifically named legal in PA.
 

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I remember when the crimson talons first came out they were illegal becuase of their diameter . Then they became legal again
 

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I don't think it was diameter...it was the 'curve' on the back of the blades.
 

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It means the cutting edge of the blade must be straight, cannot curve or spiral, the same plane means a straight line.
 

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therefore, crimson talons, and most the heads made by that company are not legal in PA.


i think WCOs need to do some quiver checks!! im sure they do when they are checking an archer..but i know those heads are in use!
 

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CT's are legal in PA. Just had this discussion with someone else. I remember when they came out and there was a big to-do about them. Mid-Atlantic Archery went in front of the PGC and they were passed. Here is an email that I received from them......
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Dave,

Thanks for contacting us. We were declared legal by the Pa Game Commission when we first introduced the Crimson Talon. Scott Mackie, the president of the company, attended their meeting and presented the product and was told that the Crimson talon line is legal. If, for any reason, that ruling has been reversed we have not been informed of it. The best bet though is to always check with your local game officer if you have a question. I hope this helps. Thanks again and best of luck this season.

Michael P Homan
National Technical Representative
Pro Staff Manager
http://www.midatlanticarchery.com
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so if CTs are legal, and John gave the definition of "same plane" exactly as i always thought it meant, why is the wording still there?? or how can they say "oh that head, though the blades are NOT in the same plane, is legal"


normally the law has some gray area....this one...seems there wasnt much of a gray area so they created their own...lol....

i just dont get it...
 

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OK boys, as I've always tried to explain the PGC does what it wants when it wants... See the manufacturer went to them and said, hey we are losing money...

SO they said on the PGC site:

HARRISBURG - The Pennsylvania Game Commission announced today that it has reversed its decision to ban "Crimson Talon Broadheads" for use by bowhunters participating in Pennsylvania's archery deer seasons.

The broadheads - relatively new on the market - were determined to be unlawful by the agency on Oct. 1, because they incorporate a design that includes curved blades. State hunting regulations require all broadheads to have an outside cutting diameter of at least 7/8th-inch with no less than two cutting edges; cutting edges must be on the same plane throughout the length of the cutting surface.

"Crimson Talon Broadheads are legal for use in Pennsylvania's archery seasons," noted Mike Dubaich, Game Commission Bureau of Law Enforcement director. "We came to this conclusion after reviewing the broadhead's performance specifications with the manufacturer. The deciding factor that led to our reversal was that the curved blades of this broadhead straighten upon penetration. That action puts this broadhead's cutting surfaces on the same plane and allows it to meet our regulatory criteria.

"We concluded that Crimson Talon Broadheads conceptually are similar to mechanical broadheads in that they don't meet our regulatory criteria until they strike their target. Most mechanical broadheads currently on the market fail to meet Pennsylvania's 7/8th-inch cutting diameter requirement until their blades swing open upon impact with the target. Crimson Talon Broadheads work similarly; they straighten on impact."


See the money must flow.... ...maybe the manufacturer was offering to donate a commemorative bow or some other item to the commissioners?
 

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karl_rominger said:
See the money must flow.... ...maybe the manufacturer was offering to donate a commemorative bow or some other item to the commissioners?
Yeah, because there's always an ulterior motive! It couldnt be just because the PGC listened to Hunter Input and reassessed the broadhead and determined it to be acceptable, that would be too easy, right?
Of course, if you have some actual proof that "the manufacturer was offering to donate a commemorative bow or some other item to the commissioners" you're welcome to present it at any time, and I would suggest you begin by visiting your State Attorney General's office to present your evidence rather than just speculate on a website!
 

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Ummm...I have a hard time believing those blades are designed to "straighten" upon impact as the PGC states the manufacturer told them.

Now, don't get me wrong, I think CT's should be legal but, the reason explained above doesn't make much sense to me. What material are the blades made from? How flexible are they? If they are really flexible, they won't deal with bone real well. Do they break easily when used on deer sized game? If not, how many times can you use them before fatigue weakens them significantly?

Sorry, the stupid engineer that I am, doesn't like the "straightening" explanation given above.

From the excerpt below, the "rigid" airfoils and the "sprial wound channel" seems polar opposite to them telling the PGC that the blade straightens out on impact. I doubt there is enough energy to keep a "straightened blade" spiraling through the animal after impact, especially if it is a rigid blade. I could be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time.

"The new Crimson Talon XT three-blade broadhead features the company's Rhino-Tuff XTreme blades (.024"), which are 33% thicker than previous models. The XT also incorporates Spin-Tite Airfoil Technology, which uses three rigid airfoils on the blades to spin-stabilize arrows in flight. Crimson Talon heads also feature the patented V-Lock Blade Attachment System that secures blades into the ferrule. XT broadheads are available in 100 and 125-grain models with a 1 1/4" cutting diameter.

Also new from 2XJ is the Crimson Talon Hyper-Speed XT--a broadhead designed specifically for ultra-fast compounds. Eleven rigid airfoils ensure ultra-fast stabilization. Other features include a Spiral Kut Tip, Spiral Wound Channel, and Rhino-Tuff Xtreme blades. Cutting diameter of this 100-grain, three-blade head is 1 1/4". "
 

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The blades dont straighten out, at least not that I know of. I would guess he chose the wrong words. They are a great broadhead made by a good company....
 

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Are you talking to me Bluetick? If so, not sure how I could be any more on topic when discussing this particular broadhead and the definition. If not, then please ignore my purposefully "snarky" retort.
 

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dont worry i lost a post here too......why? no idea...i was on topic....were talking about the legality of CT broadheads....

interesting.....maybe its because i run walker dogs???
(just teasin bluetick...)

either way, i apologize if my post wasnt proper...heck, i cant even remember what exactly it was..i just know its MIA! lol...must not been seen as fitting if it disappeared...but i thought it was...
 

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I looked into this for you guys that has posts turn up missing. Looks like a post earlier in the thread was moved because it was off topic. When a post is moved, others posts that were in response to it get moved as well by default. You guys just got caught up in it through no fault of your own.

I did not see anything in Bob, JustGrad's or Mauser's posts that was questionable. I don't moderate this forum but did check it out for yinz.
 
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