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Is it permissible to put pigeons in remote releasers (homing)while firing a blank pistol on state game lands to train a pointing dog to be steady to shot?

Thanks in advance,
Tim
 

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(a) Except as otherwise provided, it is unlawful to release captive held or captive raised game or wildlife on to any lands, public or private, without first securing a permit from the Commission. Lawfully acquired mallard ducks, ringneck pheasant, bobwhite quail and chukar partridge may be released for dog training or hunting purposes.

Since pigeons are not wildlife you should not have a problem.
 

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last I knew is it is lawful to release and kill pigeons and chukars all year except for the month of October without a permit as long as you have a vaild hunting license.

Quail & pheasant may be released but only killed during the open season for them and you must obide by the bag limits for each.

Has this changed in the Executive Bird Order? I wasn't aware of ducks but it is good to know.
 

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BRDOGS said:
last I knew is it is lawful to release and kill pigeons and chukars all year except for the month of October without a permit as long as you have a vaild hunting license.

Quail & pheasant may be released but only killed during the open season for them and you must obide by the bag limits for each.

Has this changed in the Executive Bird Order? I wasn't aware of ducks but it is good to know.
Reread what John Said...

Pay CLOSE Attention to what he said about Pigeons...
Rats with Wings!!!

Ducks have pretty much always been listed, You just needed a Permit to train with them and they had to be Mallards!
 

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I paid close attention to what John posted. Maybe you should do the same.

The person asked about shooting a blank gun and I posted more information telling him that he can go further and actually kill the bird lawfully.

I also posted further information letting the person know that even though you can lawfully acquire game birds, you still must abide by game laws.

I was asking since John had mentioned "Lawfully acquired mallard ducks, ringneck pheasant, bobwhite quail and chukar partridge may be released for dog training or hunting purposes" if anything has changed regarding release & training with these birds. I know that you can train with these birds if you get the proper permit. I was asking if anything has changed since. He also implied that you need a permit to release chukar and I don't believe you do.
 

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I didn't imply anything, I posted the law. To release mallards, quail, pheasant or chukars on game lands you need to get permission from the regional office of the PGC. You can release chukars on private land anytime and shoot them and you can release quail, pheasants and mallard ducks on private land in season and shoot them abiding by bag limits, if you are going to train dogs on released quail or pheasants in closed season you may not shoot them or carry a gun fired from the shoulder.

Sec 135.41 of game lands regulations makes it unlawful to release wild or captve bred wildlife on game lands without permission of the director, the exception is you can release the above mentioned birds on game lands with permission of the director, when a regionaloffice gives you ermission that permission is from the director.

I was not going to address all this because the answer to the OP's question was concerning homing pigeons not game birds and I didn't want to confuse the issue, which is probably now confused.
 

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John S said:
I didn't imply anything, I posted the law. To release mallards, quail, pheasant or chukars on game lands you need to get permission from the regional office of the PGC. You can release chukars on private land anytime and shoot them and you can release quail, pheasants and mallard ducks on private land in season and shoot them abiding by bag limits, if you are going to train dogs on released quail or pheasants in closed season you may not shoot them or carry a gun fired from the shoulder.

Sec 135.41 of game lands regulations makes it unlawful to release wild or captve bred wildlife on game lands without permission of the director, the exception is you can release the above mentioned birds on game lands with permission of the director, when a regionaloffice gives you ermission that permission is from the director.

I was not going to address all this because the answer to the OP's question was concerning homing pigeons not game birds and I didn't want to confuse the issue, which is probably now confused.
That part there is what he is MISSING..

THAT in Your first post is What NEEDED REREAD!

So many Miss the Fact that Pigeons, "Rats with Wings" Are NOT a Wild Game Bird...Shoot em any time you want(Just don't let PETA and HSUS Know about it
), pop a cap gun at them and watch them fly away!
 

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kindly remove emotion from this post as it is not needed. I was simply asking for further clarification. John please feel free to resolve in PM if you would like.

If the law is that confusing how does anyone expect people to know it and follow it?

The last I knew is listed below. It makes no mention of ducks or obtaining permission from a director. John, do not think I am trying to argue law with you because I know you know the law. The general population does not. I train dogs with many people and this is always an issue that is unclear.

COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA
PENNSYLVANIA GAME COMMISSION

AUTHORIZATION TO RELEASE CAPTIVE BIRDS
ON STATE GAME LANDS


ORDER

WHEREAS, The Pennsylvania Game Commission (Commission) has determined that the hunting and/or training of dogs on artificially propagated live birds is a wholesome activity enjoyed by many thousands of Pennsylvanians; and
WHEREAS, Section 102 of the Game and Wildlife Code (hereinafter Game Code) defines, inter alia, pheasants, bobwhite quail and chukar partridges as "wild birds" (34 Pa.C.S. § 102 (relating to definitions));
WHEREAS, Section 2303 of the Agricultural Code generally defines, inter alia, rock pigeons (a.k.a. rock doves) as a "domestic animal" (3 Pa.C.S. § 2303 (relating to definitions));
WHEREAS, Section 137.2(a) of the Pennsylvania Code specifically authorizes the release of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail and chukar partridges on public (other than state game lands) or private lands for dog training and/or hunting purposes (58 Pa. Code § 137.2(a)); and
WHEREAS, Section 135.41(c)(13) of the Pennsylvania Code specifically prohibits the release of captive bred or captive raised wildlife or domestic animals on state game lands without the express written permission of the Director (58 Pa. Code § 135.41(c)(13)); and
WHEREAS, The Commission recognizes that state game lands provide some of the best upland bird habitat found within the Commonwealth suitable for the hunting and/or training of dogs on artificially propagated live birds; and
WHEREAS, The Commission has recognized a growing interest in the public's ability to utilize state game lands for the release of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons for hunting and/or dog training purposes; and
WHEREAS, The Commission is aware of no scientific evidence indicating that the release of healthy captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons into the wild poses any significant threat to the health and wellbeing of the Commonwealth's wildlife resources and/or their respective habitats; and
WHEREAS, The Game Code (34 Pa.C.S. §§ 101 et seq.) and its attendant regulations (58 Pa. Code §§ 131.1 et seq.) collectively provide broad authority to the Commission to regulate activities relating to the protection, preservation and management of all game and wildlife and their respective habitats (C.f. 34 Pa.C.S. §§ 322, 2101 and 2102); and
WHEREAS, In an effort to support and encourage the hunting and/or training of dogs on artificially propagated live birds, the Commission has determined that it is willing to relax regulatory restrictions on the release of captive bred or captive raised wildlife or domestic animals on state game lands by providing the following express written permission to specifically authorize the release of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons on state game lands for hunting and/or dog training purposes; and
NOW THEREFORE, I, Carl G. Roe, Executive Director of the Pennsylvania Game Commission, pursuant to the authority vested in me by the Game Code and its attendant regulations, do hereby authorize the release of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons on state game lands for hunting and/or dog training purposes as follows:
1. Only licensed hunters or persons acting under the authority of a valid field dog trial permit shall be eligible to participate in the release of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons on state game lands for hunting and/or dog training purposes.

2. Except as provided in paragraph five (5) below, eligible persons releasing captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants or bobwhite quail on state game lands during closed seasons for the same shall apply for and receive a field dog trial permit from the Commission prior to engaging in release activities (See 34 Pa.C.S. §§ 2943 (relating to field dog trials) and 2944 (relating to field dog trials for retrievers)).
3. Except as provided in paragraph five (5) below, eligible persons releasing captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants or bobwhite quail on state game lands during open seasons for the same are encouraged, but not required, to apply for and receive a field dog trial permit from the Commission prior to engaging in release activities. However, should a field dog trial permit not be obtained, all daily and field possession bag limits for each respective species, as found in Section 139.4 of the Pennsylvania Code, shall apply in full force and effect (58 Pa. Code § 139.4).
4. Except as provided in paragraph five (5) below, eligible persons may release captive bred or captive raised chukar partridges and rock pigeons on state game lands through out the duration of the license year without the need for obtaining a field dog trial permit.
5. The release of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons on state game lands for hunting and/or dog training purposes during the entire month of October remains expressly prohibited without a field dog trial permit. The issuance of a field dog trial permit during the month of October will be predicated upon the absence of any pheasant stocking activities in the near area as determined by the Commission.
6. All takings of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons pursuant to this order shall be conducted in conformance with the limitations of Section 2308 of the Game Code (34 Pa.C.S. § 2308 (relating to unlawful devices and methods)) and Sections 141.20 and 141.22 of the Pennsylvania Code (58 Pa. Code §§ 141.20 (relating to protective material required) and 141.22 (relating to small game)).
7. This Order shall not be construed in any manner to permit the hunting or taking of wild game or wildlife in any manner inconsistent with the Game Code or its attendant regulations. Specifically, this Order shall not be construed in any manner to abrogate or diminish any current or future limitations or prohibitions on the hunting or taking of pheasants, the release of artificially propagated live pheasants or the training of dogs within any area designated as a wild pheasant recovery area.
8. This Order shall not be construed in any manner to limit the Commission’s authority to establish additional or further authorizations or limitations relating to the release of artificially propagated live birds on state game lands for hunting and/or dog training purposes.
9. This Order is effective immediately and shall remain in effect until rescinded or modified by subsequent order.
Given under my hand and seal of the Pennsylvania Game Commission on this _____ day of _______________ 200__.
 

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That executive order must have been issued after I retired, however, the law I posted still applies, the executive order is providing a blanket permission to release certain species on game lands under the approved conditions so people do not have to contact the regional offices each time they want to train on game lands. The order doesn't trump the law, it is in concert with it. The problem with executive orders is if you don't see the news release you don't know about it. In fact, the game lands regulations published on page 18 of the digest for 09 and 2010 stll says it is not lawful to release on gamelands. The exec order should be in the digest.
 

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BRDOGS said:
kindly remove emotion from this post as it is not needed.
HUM,

NOW I'll ADD Emotions...

SO, You have 1 of those Crystal Balls Setting in front of you and can SEE my Emotions when you read!

Get over yourself!

It is a Computer, NO ONE CAN SEE ANYONES EMOTIONS!

OH, and I'm Not Hollering, Just typing in Caps, so you get the POINT!
 

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John S said:
That executive order must have been issued after I retired, however, the law I posted still applies, the executive order is providing a blanket permission to release certain species on game lands under the approved conditions so people do not have to contact the regional offices each time they want to train on game lands. The order doesn't trump the law, it is in concert with it. The problem with executive orders is if you don't see the news release you don't know about it. In fact, the game lands regulations published on page 18 of the digest for 09 and 2010 stll says it is not lawful to release on gamelands. The exec order should be in the digest.
to my knowledge it should be in the next digest as this order was released on January 9 2010.

hence the reason for my original post asking if you knew anything has changed from this.
 

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Woodywoodduck said:
BRDOGS said:
kindly remove emotion from this post as it is not needed.
HUM,

NOW I'll ADD Emotions...

SO, You have 1 of those Crystal Balls Setting in front of you and can SEE my Emotions when you read!

Get over yourself!

It is a Computer, NO ONE CAN SEE ANYONES EMOTIONS!

OH, and I'm Not Hollering, Just typing in Caps, so you get the POINT!

POINT TAKEN!!!! THANKS SO MUCH FOR SETTING ME STRAIGHT.
 

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The bottom line is I can train with Chukars or pigeons most of the year on stateland, shoot them or let me fly off using blanks....without a permit?

I dont know why people need to add worthless dribble to posts such as this one, and ...good information from BRDOGS and John on this...not so much from others who add nothing of substance...sheesh.
 

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So, I can take chukars to the state game lands this saturday and shoot them?

Hope so
 

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If you don't mind getting wet you can.
 

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The forecast in my area is spectacular for this weekend. Might get wet with sweat, if I wait too long to go out.
 

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John,

Just so that I understand all that I need is:

250 inches of orange and a current hunting license.

Not to mention dog, shotgun, shells, and chukars.
 

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Yep, just read the digest about when the game lands are close to dog training because of the youth pheasant hunts.
 

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Woodywoodduck said:
BRDOGS said:
kindly remove emotion from this post as it is not needed.
HUM,

NOW I'll ADD Emotions...

SO, You have 1 of those Crystal Balls Setting in front of you and can SEE my Emotions when you read!

Get over yourself!

It is a Computer, NO ONE CAN SEE ANYONES EMOTIONS!

OH, and I'm Not Hollering, Just typing in Caps, so you get the POINT!
i think he was stating bout P.E.T.A. not finding out emotion....at least that's what i seen
....ya know how emotional P.E.T.A. loonies get
.......bob

....
 

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I'm trying to understand this better.
Page 32 of the digest says:
A person may not carry a rifle, shotgun or bow and arrows while training dogs.

I understand now that you can release pigeons and chukars on state game lands.
It's not clear to me that you can shoot them, since the digest says, for example, that you can't carry a shot gun.

Help in getting clarity on this is appreciated!
 
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