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Discussion Starter #1
I have been out of beagles for a long time- 24 years. I was wondering what you guys that are up to date and in the know think about this pedigree. <span style="font-weight: bold">If</span> I do decide to get one he has two other males left and I wouldn't mind bringing them up to PA if someone else would be interested.
Thank you for any input.

"4 crosses of Smokes Creek Syris Mcgee, Lots of Branko blood like Big Same, Poetry in motion, Phantom of the opera, Copper boy, Jack of all trades, One tuff ombre and much more."

Link to the actual pedigree.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/Cannonball08/ped_zpsnf5hanq7.jpg
 

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I can speak from personal experience on Sy, I hunted over him and handled him at trials for Rick. Hands down one of the best big males I've ever seen run a rabbit. As far as the white river stuff goes, I've never been a fan. I competed against a lot of them in UKC hunts and they just never showed me anything to be impressed by.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thank you. Been out of beagles for a long time. Been reading what I could lately. Heard some bad about White River in my reading also but read that a lot of it came from one certain stud. I forget the dogs name but it wasn't Rambling Striker.

I may be wrong but from what I understood was Syris was the first and the other dogs were out of him.

Thank you for your input.
 

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I don't know anything about bloodlines or pedigrees so maybe I can learn something from you guys. Where in PA, if possible, can you find breeders for dogs that come from lines like this? And what is the average price for a dog like this?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I am not a good one to answer your questions. I am far from knowledgeable.

Really beagle pups are not that expensive. Lots of good pups can be had for $125-$200. I know there are places that charge a high dollar for pups.

I was wrong about the other dogs being out of him. Don't know where I thought I read that.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Here's a quote I found.</span>

"Syris was bred approximately 16 times in the 5 years that he lived. Out if those litters he produced 30 titled off spring in arha, UKC and AKC as well as a hand full of bench champions. There were also several hounds in both AKC large lack and SPO that had wins and places. There were several others that also had wins in multiple registries. I would take a good guess to more than double those numbers if we go into grand and great grand pups. He was a pleasure to own and trial and till this day I can't count the friendships I made through trialling the county with him. Syris has been gone for over 11 years now, and could not imagine had he lived a full life what his true impact on our sport could have been. Being the first hound to earn field championships in three registry formats till this day is rare, as there I think is three in beagling history. In 2010 Syris brought me another title by being inducted into the NHBA Hall of Fame. His blood will always be a huge factor in Smoke a Creek Kennels. This post brought back some great memories! Thanks all for keeping the legend of Smokes Creek Syris McGee " The Monster of the Mid West" remembered!"

Apparently John-PA knows the former owner of this male. From what I read I think Smoke Creek Kennel is in NY. The pup I was thinking about is in WV.

To me the pup I was looking at isn't real close bred to Syris but it seems like the dam is a darn good female. This pups dam is CH PCH HBCH Smokes Creek Flip Fantasia. The sire is also out of Flip Fantasia and a GRCH GRHBCH White River Rambling Striker. I like a dog that is line bred like that. Flip Fantasia has Syris top and bottom and Branko breeding. I am no expert at all. I am not looking for the next world champion I just want a dog that I am sure is gonna suit me in the hunting woods. I will likely not run trials with one if I do get it. I love it and I love being around all those dogs. I just never have the time or money. I haven't had a beagle in many years.
 

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My first two beagles were 200 a piece one having her papers the male does not. I went the route of a more reputable breader for my newest puppy and she was more money. Maybe I paid way to much but the fancy website sold me instead of the papershop. I was just curious as to what guys were paying for dogs with well know bloodlines and pedigrees for future reference.
 

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Rick Giermata from Lackawanna, NY owned Sy. Sy was not the first dog to finish in all 3 registries, tank was. Sy did it shortly after tank and since then there have been a lot of dogs to do it (some even finishing in 4 registries now that PKC is around).

As far as breeders in PA, there are a lot of guys in PA with "branko" bred dogs. Sy was out of big sam and kendra and bred by Rich Wells in NY, Rich and Rick G. Co-owned Sy until they had a falling out and Rick became sole owner.

Clinton County, you have to decide the style of dog you like. These dogs are going to be fast and a little rough on the line. I'm sure if you asked Chad he would let you watch the parents run (any good breeder would). I already told you my thoughts on the white river stuff, but if you think they'll fit what you want then go for it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I don't know I guess I will wait. Thanks for the info. I have read a lot of comments about White River dogs and the opinion seems the same as yours. I wish I could find a dog like I had when I was younger. I have hunted with some fast dogs in the past. The ones I hunted with were like you said pretty rough on the line. My medium speed dog would piddle right on by while those dogs were doing circles on a check or turn and really they seemed to drive a rabbit a lot further away before it came back. Many times hunting with those dogs they would go nearly out of earshot before the rabbit turned. They were heck on a straight run though. We used to hunt a lot of clearcuts in the mountains with those fast dogs could be why they got out of earshot you know with hollows and such. I just want a dog that I know is going to be decent on rabbits when I get one so the only logical thing for me is to get one that an idiot like me can at least see that the parents were rabbit dogs for generations. Thanks for the info.
 

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The best beagle I ever owned was one that wasn't registered. This old farmer sold it to me for $50 and he said he never hunted the dam in its life but anytime the dam got loose she would run rabbits around the farm all day long until she finally got tired and came home. That pup was one of the best gun dogs you could have in my eyes because she never gave up. Ever since that's what I look for in any hunting dog doesn't matter to me what type of champions are in its 4 generation pedigree, I just look at the mother and the father and I want to see their determination to run a track. Speed will come with experience and confidence, trash running can be broken, but determination is something that they either have or they don't.

I do have a pup now that goes back to Brankos one tuff ombre on the dams side and Brankos blue iceman on the sires side and not only is he one of the most obedient pups I've ever owned but he also has that determination I look for when I begin training them. Best of luck to you and your future pup
 

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Had a litter of pups back in April, with a lot of Branko in them, tough ombre, and his sister are fairly close in the pedigree also one tough Mountie. Fast, smart , obedient seem to be traits from these dogs. They might look good on paper, but you never know until they are properly trained and run enough. Good luck with the new pup.
 

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bpottorff said:
Had a litter of pups back in April, with a lot of Branko in them, tough ombre, and his sister are fairly close in the pedigree also one tough Mountie. Fast, smart , obedient seem to be traits from these dogs. They might look good on paper, but you never know until they are properly trained and run enough. Good luck with the new pup.
What do you have going back to Mountie? I have two dogs directly out of Mountie and 3 others that go back to him as well.
 

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bpottorff said:
Had a litter of pups back in April, with a lot of Branko in them, tough ombre, and his sister are fairly close in the pedigree also one tough Mountie. Fast, smart , obedient seem to be traits from these dogs. They might look good on paper, but you never know until they are properly trained and run enough. Good luck with the new pup.
your box is full, can you pm me?
 

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My female is out of Mountie and a female named country lane bruces lizzy. My male is out of guyettes traveling trapper and brankos motion picture. This female (motion picture) is a litter mate to ombre.
 

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Never saw him run. heard him described as a hare hound, but everybody has their own ideas of that. For those that saw him run, what did he look like?
 
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