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Discussion Starter #1
I hear it all the time that with AR we have a more balanced age structure. OK, AR does allow “some” of the younger males to live another year.

Question: How does our current deer management allow for keeping older females (doe’s)??
 

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Question: How does our current deer management allow for keeping older females (doe’s)??
HR is in place to reduce deer. When the age of the Doe goes down so does the birth rate. The older Does are on average better bearers of fawns.

So to answer your question. Our currant deer management plan does not promote keeping older females. It would be counterproductive. You know the old story shoot the big Doe and save a BB. Waugh!
 

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So a balanced age structure is only a benefit with the male (buck) population??? I don't get it.
You never heard me say that. Waugh!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Never said you did. Just thinking out loud...I'll try to be quiet. lol

BTW, I think the AR water bucket is starting to leak!
 

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Bucks have always been coveted and targeted in this state. The B/D ratio has always been skewed as well with there being at least 3 does for every buck. This means that there are roughly 3 times more does out there for every buck yet we do not kill 3 times more does than we do bucks. This ensures that many does survive each year and we have plenty of older does in the herd. This did not used to be the case with bucks however. Stats have shown that 80-85% of the overall buck population was made up of 1.5 yr olds and that we harvested around 80% of the overall buck population every year. That meant very few bucks making it past 1.5. AR has changed that whether you want to believe it or not so consider those holes in your bucket patched up. You're welcome...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
This means that there are roughly 3 times more does out there for every buck...
Since 2002 thru 2010 PA harvest rates are;

Female: 2,241,013
Male: 1,150,456

Fawns born are aprox a 50/50 split.

How on earth do we maintain a 3 to 1 doe to buck ratio???

It's still leaking.
 

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we don't have a 3 to 1 b/d ratio. if we did, we wouldn't want to keep it there, and ar would help balance it.
 

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Never said you did. Just thinking out loud...I'll try to be quiet. lol
I should have used a smiley face or the whistling one. my bad. Waugh!
 

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The B/D ratio has always been skewed as well with there being at least 3 does for every buck.
Where is myth busters when you need them.


Stats have shown that 80-85% of the overall buck population was made up of 1.5 yr olds and that we harvested around 80% of the overall buck population every year.
Must have a professional writer work for him. There is no way even Seinfeld could come up with this stuff by himself.


Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water. The bucket had holes and the bucket never held any water. But Jack kept trying to fill his pool with buckets of air. While others have learned to use the water that runs down the hill in the creek created from the bucket of holes. Waugh!
 

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we don't have a 3 to 1 b/d ratio. if we did, we wouldn't want to keep it there,
Correct we never had it that bad. It was <3:1 before AR. Waugh!
 

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Freytown: Did you put this in the wrong place to begin with. One would think that trolling belongs in the fishing Forum.
Waugh!
 

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Oh my, this article states that the buck/doe ratio can be as bad as 1:5. How can that be??? The "experts" here say it isn't so!
Sure it could but the experts here said it never was.

Yes I did notice that it was about age structure in female deer. So tell us why the age of the Doe don't matter. We are told to target the older larger Doe. Seems to me it is just another form of HR. Waugh!
 

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Notice where it states the ADULT doe population compared to the ADULT buck population. This is where so many people become confused and start spewing that the buck/doe ration can NEVER be worse than 3:1.
You seem to be the only one spewing that rumor. Could be that you can't comprehend or it could be your attempt to miss lead.

Only thing I said was that Pa never was as bad as 3:1.

That is when the term is used properly and measured at the right time. Seems that some also mistake the age of an adult when it is used in the proper setting. As in the case of the B:D ratio. Mixing and matching it doesn't make it right. Waugh!
 

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All I know is I've been hunting the same area of State Forest land for the last 25 years and since AR and HR I see less deer per day, BUT, 5 out of my top 6 bucks have been since AR. I see more "nice" bucks now then I did before AR. The bucks and does are bigger bodied.

You guys can post all the numbers you want to "justify" your argument on AR. All I can say is, I like what i'm seeing in the woods while i'm hunting. AR needs to stay.
 

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Jim, I don't know who you claim was telling us to target the older does. The only thing in the digest is a page that tells how to identify button bucks and to consider letting them walk to protect a future breeding age buck for the herd. It stands to reason that most guys will shoot the largest antlerless deer out of a group of three to avoid taking a bb. Now we all know that YOU target button bucks specifically so it does not pertain to you...

Do YOU believe that we have an age structure issue in the doe population? Do you believe that the majority of our does are only 1.5 yr olds? See my previous post.

When talking about ADULT buck/doe ratios, we are talking about breeding age deer of both sexes. 6 month old fawns are out the window when talking about these ratios. So many want to tout the % of buck and doe fawns as being nearly 50% so that means that the buck/doe ratio can NEVER be worse than 2:1. When you begin to put models together to show how adult buck/doe ratios can become skewed in short order due to over harvesting of bucks, it becomes quite clear how things had gotten so bad.
 
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