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So my father has been feuding with this neighbor who used to be allowed to hunt on our property. When this neighbor saw that we had erected a tree stand in the area he used to hunt, he placed a salt block on his property a couple hundred yards from the new stand. We already have a call in to the local WCO, but I'm curious what the actual distance is that a stand must be from bait.
 

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There is no distance set by law, the terain and other actors determine if it is huntig over bait. Let the WCO make the decision. I think he will be smart enough to determine what is going on.
 

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Now if he planted one acre of clover, you would be OK... Which is why PA baiting laws are so backwards... (and also why the PGC removed the license suspension from a first offense)

The problem is it is not illegal if you don't know about the bait... But once you know, you have a duty stop hunting over or around it... and there is no specified distance.

In fact if I were an anti hunter I would advocate scattering baiting over an entire gamelands, since it is the presence and knowledge of the presence that is the violation... (which again is why the law [censored])

Of course the government could probably never prove you knew about the bait unless you told them you knew about it, unless it is obvious....
 

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Seems to me a good lawyer could destroy a case against the PGC for not having a specified distance and ticketing on judgement. How can one officer write you up for being 50yds away and another not bother with anything inside of 200 yds?
 

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That is not why revocation was removed for a first time offense
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I guess it is better that he told us about it instead of just putting it out there the day before the season opens...but that doesnt make it any less of a crappy thing to do. I'm really hoping the WCO understands the situation. I've tried to be neutral in the whole feud, but if i have to move the stand and make new shooting lanes, his stand (which is 25 yards from the property line) might have a similar issue in the near future. Sorry to vent guys...just trying to get over what was otherwise an enjoyable weekend at camp.
 

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Nope a good lawyer, if there are any, wouldn't stand much of a chance since it was the courts who said no distance can be set in a written opinion. Karl, wrong again, the reason for no loss of license for a first offense if no game was killed was because of the general assembly grumbling about the phone calls they were getting from prosecuted baiters. Seems we have a lot of baiters in PA. You have now been enlightened.
 

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While there is no magic distance, the standard that would apply is laid out in Commonwealth v. Donovan
http://www.aopc.org/OpPosting/CWealth/out/2468CD02_7-31-03.pdf


And I stand corrected I should have said government changed the law, as you are correct it takes a legislative act.. But it wasn't "baiters" whining it was citizens in general, who realized the penalty was too harsh when the charge is subjective, placing the hunter at the mercy of the WCO's personal disposition..
 

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PaUplander said:
Seems to me a good lawyer could destroy a case against the PGC for not having a specified distance and ticketing on judgement. How can one officer write you up for being 50yds away and another not bother with anything inside of 200 yds?

It would take a very good lawyer to destroy a good case. A good case is based on good evidence, the local terrain, and other factors. Every case is different, but as I understand it, the PGC has a higher conviction rate than most other LE agencies. That says something about the quality of their cases.

As for the question as to why one WCO writes someone up for 50 yds. and one for 200 yds. -> A good hunter knows his prey. They pattern its movements. Every area is as different as the animals in them. The WCOs have to take that all into account. The WCO has to "pattern" the baiter. It would be unrealistic to try to apply a blanket approach to distances.

As for having a set distance, be careful what you wish for. It would be easier to stop your hunt with a set distance than with one based on the locale and local animals. With the set distance (say 100 yds.), I can overlap baits, at your favorite hunting grounds, every 99 yds. That would effectively shut an area down down. With the current law, the WCO can look at the total sum of the circumstances and say that the bait only affects a specific treestand and not the whole woodlot. Or, he/she can say that the bait is so vast and belligerent that it affects an entire property or sadly, even an entire mountainside.

I think I'd rather trust to some Common Sense and Good Judgment out there, which is what titanmdm is looking for.
 

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No it was a bunch of bear baiters with influential friends.
 

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Karl,

I would think that the no set distance, as referenced by the PA Supreme court - from an unpublished Supreme Court decision would have precedent:

IN THE COMMONWEALTH COURT OF PENNSYLVANIA
COMMONWEALTH OF
:
PENNSYLVANIA

v.
: No. 3150 C.D. 1999
:
THOMAS SELLINGER,


Very bottom of decision:


3 In its opinion the trial court quoted an unpublished Superior Court opinion that expressed a
consistent view:

it would have been impossible for the legislature to delineate a specific area within which baiting in general could be limited. Animal habits and geography in the myriad of possible situations represent variables that defy reduction to a legislative formula.

Commonwealth v. Martin, et al, Nos. 00138, 00139 and 11074 (Harrisburg 1984)(C.P. Centre
County Nos. 231, 232 and 233 of 1983).


http://www.aopc.org/OpPosting/CWealth/out/3150CD99.pdf
 

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It does.. as per distance.. but I can hunt 10 yards from a bait so long as I don't know it is there....

If you might be near bait, bottom line, when questioned by law enforcement, invoke your right to remain silent, make then prove their case without your statements (plus they often remember what you say differently er creatively)....
 

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Be carefull what you wish for if you want a set distance it will be a bad thing. If a WCO or DWCO say finds you with in 75 yards of bait and he looks things over and maybe he might understand you dint know it was there. But if you want set distances then if you dont know its there and you hunt and get caught then to bad.Then you will be the first one on here whinning about how you dint know it was there and there shouldnt be distances. that said i dont know why anyone needs to BAIT in pa any how . I rahter have the common sence and good judgement of a WCO or a DWCO then a set distance any day. besides if your 10 yards away like you said how can you honestly say you dint see it or know it was there !!!!! To me Mr rominger all you ever want to do in here is bash the PGC and anyone that agrees with them. So i guess you had been caught before at something you shouldnt have been doing and in your mind the best way to get even is bash the PGC and all the laws that YOU as a person of the ME generation dont like.
 

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karl_rominger said:
It does.. as per distance.. but I can hunt 10 yards from a bait so long as I don't know it is there....


Really?.......and then you'll stay silent? Yeah, that'll really help you case.
 

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Beartrppr said:
karl_rominger said:
It does.. as per distance.. but I can hunt 10 yards from a bait so long as I don't know it is there....


Really?.......and then you'll stay silent? Yeah, that'll really help you case.
Beartrppr,

What else would you expect an lawyer to say? Bet his fees are more than the fine...
 

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karl_rominger said:
It does.. as per distance.. but I can hunt 10 yards from a bait so long as I don't know it is there....

If you might be near bait, bottom line, when questioned by law enforcement, invoke your right to remain silent, make then prove their case without your statements (plus they often remember what you say differently er creatively)....
Wow even a lawyer that isnt very good knows better than to lump a whole group of people together with an outlandish assumption.
 

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A lawyer accusing officers of creative memory, now that is a hoot coming from someone who makes up creative theories and spouts them as plausible to try to get a client off. A long time ago Virginia had the right idea, lawyers couldn't live there.
 
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