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Discussion Starter #1
The RGS has announced the creation of the new American Woodcock Society. Not sure what the guys at Woodcock Limited will think of this as they just went national last year with their organization. Should be good for woodcock but may cause a little competition for habitat dollars.
 

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I don't think it'll hurt... I do tend to think that the unspoken drive to start it was to bring in more capitol to the RGS. I hope the WL continues to grow and keeps all the initiative/raised capitol/education& awareness eggs, as it relates to the American Woodcock, from being tossed into one basket.

I could see where a centralized/unified effort would provide more oomph, but let's face it, the RGS is no PF or NWTF in terms of marketing and public education prowess and know-how... the local chapters are really the heart of it.
 

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I would give my money to Woodcock Limited of PA. But thats just me.

I'm not a big fan of RGS.
 

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The quail groups went through something similar, I hope this doesn't divide the cause.
 

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I believe this is a bad idea. Here we go again as hunters dividing ourselves, so one group or another can have a feather in their cap. I am an active member in both organizations and can see the competition for dollars even now. I know that the greater percentage of the dollar that goes into WL ends up on the ground in habitat. RGS does a great job also. Only one of the two will survive. Lynn, I am also a member of PF among others. You may consider me a grouse snob, but my opinion is that there are tens of thousands of acres of marginal grouse and woodcock land in the state that only needs cutting and some TLC and could be converted to great early successional habitat for these two native species. We could rival the lake states for grouse populations.
 

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Dissappointing to me to hear becuase I think it is too much of a marketing ploy! I support RGS because of the work that I know can be done thru its biologist and members. A RGS banquet must bring in over $7000 before a chapter is <span style="font-weight: bold"> entitled to</span> habitat money which starts at that level. Pheasants Forever you buy the banquet package for about $1200 and you keep all the proceeds and use it as you wish. Woodcock Limited is setting itself to run where most of your money can stay local. I will attend their banquet next month.
 

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It can be be very frustrating, there are 65,000 grouse hunters in Pa., yet if you go to a habitat project you may see a dozen people. It's the same with PF, 90,000 pheasant hunters and only 2,000 members of PF. Sometimes I ask myself...where the HULL is everybody!!!!

You're right Grouse28, with the right committment, we could have MUCH better grouse and woodcock hunting!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Grouse28, I do not consider you a grouse snob, obviously you help multiple species as do I. Some may consider me a pheasant snob but I also belong to RGS, WL, DU, QF and PF. PF gets most of my time but I am a bird hunter and interested in lots of species including non game species. I recently purchased 40 acres of land that was reverting to woods. My original plan was to put it all in grass but one quarter of the property looked so good for woodcock habitat I couldn't bring myself to convert it back to grass. I am anxious to see if I get some singers this spring.
 

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FLDBRED yep the same old guys, and for the most part I mean "old Guys", sometimes at our work projects there are a fair number of Audubon Society people. Quite embarrassing considering it is our project. Goes to show that two groups can work together if they have common goals. I always feel that when there is a project that RGS and WL posture for credit.
Lynn hope you do see some singing woodcock and maybe a drummer nearby.
I do question the sustainability of the pheasant project, but I do not question your desire to maintain it, actually took part in the pheasant survey last year at Montour and was quite impressed. Will also take part in any habitat improvement projects there as in the past.
 

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It is going to create more overhead at RGS and I am not a fan of that. Biologists, Regional Directors all cost money along with there supporting staff. All costs have to come from someplace and that probably means less money for habitat. I guess we will see what happens, my mission wont change.
 

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I guess I question why now?

There was a big point made a couple years ago when they added the woodcock to the logo.

I know RGS has already given money for woodcock projects. The South Mountain and the St. Mary's chapters being two of them.
 

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Probably a response to Woodcock Limited just launching their brand new, shiny website not too long ago.
 

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Lyco, not probably, but reality.
WL is set to grow exponentially, especially in the lake states and the deep south and I believe RGS feels threatened. Again hunters/sportsmen being devisive and RGS vying for limited available funds to feed the beast. I am a member of both and support both.
 

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RGS launched AWS for a very good reason. Many members are down south and there's no grouse population down there. The hue and cry was for woodcock habitat, research, etc down there and RGS stepped up and decided to be proactive. They already do a lot of habitat work in the north, makes sense to branch out.
 

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Grouse28 said:
I believe this is a bad idea. Here we go again as hunters dividing ourselves, so one group or another can have a feather in their cap. I am an active member in both organizations and can see the competition for dollars even now. I know that the greater percentage of the dollar that goes into WL ends up on the ground in habitat. RGS does a great job also. Only one of the two will survive. Lynn, I am also a member of PF among others. You may consider me a grouse snob, but my opinion is that there are tens of thousands of acres of marginal grouse and woodcock land in the state that only needs cutting and some TLC and could be converted to great early successional habitat for these two native species. We could rival the lake states for grouse populations.
I agree 100% with the habitat needs!! We can change from marginal to excellent habitat with some cutting. We are in the process of a grouse/woodcock habitat project here on our property. Just finished the cutting and will be planting trees/shrubs to enhance the habitat come spring. The RGS biologist and NE Rep helped us with our plan. Every bit of habitat that can be enhanced will help!!
 

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Stackbarrel, I agree that any habitat enhancement will help, and I commend you for you efforts. If I really think about it, I may have an issue with RGS using members donations to provide manpower for use on private lands. Hope you see more birds in the future.
 

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Not sure why this is a bad idea....it seems to work fine for Ducks Unlimited and Delta Waterfowl. As in most things, competition is a good thing.

-John
 

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Grouse28, I am with QDMA and we consult on private lands as well as consult and supply manpower and funding for SGL projects. DU was here about 7 years ago consulting too. That's part of what we all do, work for the benefit of the resource. The only manpower they provided was making recommendations to formulate a habitat plan.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
If conservation groups only worked on public lands the wildlife resource would suffer and wildlife improvement is the first priority. Improving wildlife numbers on private grounds help public ground as wildlife moves to it.
 

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mcclinj said:
Not sure why this is a bad idea....it seems to work fine for Ducks Unlimited and Delta Waterfowl. As in most things, competition is a good thing.

-John
It's not always competition. Many like-minded conservation organizations partner up on projects as well. Partnerships are vital to how a lot of projects get funded & completed.
 
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