American Pioneer Powder (JIm Shockey's Gold)

7414 Views 14 Replies 7 Participants Last post by frontier gander, Feb 17, 2010

Farflung

Discussion Starter · Feb 7, 2010

I've been using this powder for several years. Lots of good points: easy to use in the "stick" form, essentially non-corrosive, makes gun very easy to clean.

But I've had some concerns with it. I switched from 2 sticks (100 grains) with a Knight sabot and Hornaday 250 grain all copper bullet to 2 sticks and a 300 grain Platinum Power belt.

The powder that I am using is a couple of years old. It seems that I am not getting consistent velocities with the powder. Looking at the sticks, it seems the corners are rounded off somewhat. I've also heard/read that older American Pioneer Powder looses its power. I have always store the powder in the sealed jar that it comes in and in a low humidity enviorment. I do carry the jar around with me in my SUV during the muzzleloading season and wonder if the vibration has caused the rounding of the edges of the sticks.

Any experience with this propellent out there? I'm thinking about going to 150 grains of sticks and 250 grain TC Shock Wave bullets and the slick load sabots.

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frontier gander

· #2 · Feb 8, 2010

those are the old versions of APP. they have the super sticks out now which are one big stick. ive been testing some and i really like them. im on my way out so when i get home , i can help you out more.

Farflung

Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 8, 2010

glad to get a response. Was thinking no one use APP

frontier gander

· #4 · Feb 8, 2010

6

okay i started shooting APP-JSG loose and stick form about a little over a month ago. Love the stuff! I've done 3 moisture tests with it so far and every one of them passed. Very consistent from one shot to the next, from one week to the next.
Using 100gr Super Stick APP with a 300gr XTP mag in a mmp-24 sabot, this was 3 shots @ 100 yards with my CVA Accura. Never have to swab between shots!

CVA Hawken .50cal @ 100 yards with open sights. 90gr JSG 2f, .018 patches and .490 round balls.

90gr JSG 2f, .020 patch and .490 round balls out of a cabelas hawken @ 50 yards. This rifle has NEVER shot this good with round balls!

If you want to use the Sticks, Go with the Super Stick as it produces reliable/better performance. I've enjoyed them so far.

Loose Powder, I really like both Jim Shockeys Gold and American Pioneer. A couple of our sidelocks love the 3F so i use both forms of powder.

100 VS 150

In the cabelas hawken i went and shot 26 shots over two days without ever having to swab.
Heres 11 of the shots. I normally allow the barrel a few minutes to cool down between each shot but this time, i just loaded and fired as fast as i could.

As far as keeping your pellets safe, Get some speedloaders or powder tubes. Bringing your entire can of sticks hunting is fine, but just open it for emergencies when you need the sticks. Its better to just expose a handful of sticks rather than the entire can.

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53320

· #5 · Feb 16, 2010

I find this powder to perform poorly with power belts. Not enough violent ignition to seal the gas ring. Went on APP web site and there they state not recommended for power belt bullets. I personally prefer sabots and dad likes power belts. We do all our shooting together. My older Knight disk likes 777 or pyradex pellets. Just my 2 cents.

frontier gander

· #6 · Feb 16, 2010

powerbelts shoot excellent with this powder. 2f doesnt shot well in the sidelocks but the 3f + powerbelt = awesome groups. the sticks go great with powerbelts as well. i looked but didnt see where it said not to use powerbelts.

Farflung

Discussion Starter · #7 · Feb 16, 2010

I've heard of other folks having inconsistent groups with the powerbelts. They attributed it to poor gas sealing, but I'm not sure if that was just a feeling or if they had some sort of proof. I think I will be switching to TC super slick sabots with 150 grains of sticks to see if that will help. Won't be doing it for a while, as I can't drive into my clubs range till the snow melts and frost is out of the road.

frontier gander

· #8 · Feb 16, 2010

that plastic skirt is there mainly to hold the bullet in the bore and to make for easier loading. It seals the gas somewhat but the bullet itself seals the bore just like a conical is supposed to. But in the last day and a half i've shot over 90 shots with APP-JSG powder, all with excellent results. Could be just the rifle doesnt like the powder or even the bullet.

53320

· #9 · Feb 16, 2010

This is from APP web site. I am not here to bash APP, just adding my experence. Maybe the new power belts with the sofer black shirt works well but for me not the hard plastic skirt.
Muzzleloader Performance
General loading instructions are to use the same recommended volume charge of loose our powders as you would with black powder. It will produce the same velocities that a similar volume charge of black powder would. Refer to the recommendations made by the maker of your rifle for a loading charge and do not exceed the maximum load given. No lubes are needed, and the use of lubes that come in contact with the powder will result in unburned powder, fouling and lower velocities. Seat the projectile so that it is firmly against the powder. No further compression is required or recommended. Standard caps will work just fine. <span style="color: #FF0000">When using a sabot load, pick one that is somewhat tight in your bore when loading. When sabots are used with black powder, there is an allowance made for a fouled barrel, so some may be too loose to use with our products and will result in lower performance. </span>Wiping the bore between shots is not necessary, as no fouling will build up in your bore.

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zimmerstutzen

· #10 · Feb 16, 2010

Guess I have been shooting holy black too long. Most of the substitute powders are like drinking O'Doul's.

brewyak

· #11 · Feb 16, 2010

I have tried it and ended up giving the rest of it away. I tried the FFF then went to goex FF and got much better results from my deerstalker. The ignition was night and day also. I have a fresh pound of goex, but might be makeing a trip to Dixons to get some swiss and try it out

good ole boy

· #12 · Feb 16, 2010

How do you use that stick stuff in a flinty?

brewyak

· #13 · Feb 16, 2010

didn't use the stick, sorry it was granulated.

It was the first I have everbought and the label said pioneer powder, so that is what the poineers used right

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long hunter

· #14 · Feb 17, 2010

What Zimmer said

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frontier gander

· #15 · Feb 17, 2010

i see what you mean about powerbelts and the fact that APP recommends a firm loading sabot. The Powerbelts however, work perfectly fine. They recommend a firm loading bullet because once you fire the rifle, the next load and the next after load very easily. If the projectile you are shooting is to loose, you can end up with the bullet moving off the powder. But powerbelts will work perfectly fine as long as they do not move off of the powder charge on a fouled bore.

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