[Glenn D]

Sore subject that annoys me so much time has passed and our elected representatives continue to treat us like subjects instead of constituents...

Which reminds me, do yourself a favor and do not vote for an incumbent Congressman or Senator.

But on the trespass issue, I live in MD where written permission is required and hunters take the law seriously. It works. I don't understand why PA will not adopt a similar policy and let ANY LEO, including WCO's and Deputies to enforce written permission to hunt.

Secondly, it is a waste of time and a blemish on the beauty of the state to require people to put posted signs all over the place. Most of us have probably seen the properties that have every tree posted with some obnoxious sign. Really an ugly thing to have to look at and an "in your face" attitude by some.

I remember one occasion several years ago where my Dad lives. He built the house in 1950 and is still there. His view out the front is of a nice woods. Ownership of the woods changed and the new owner decided to post the property, right in front of my Dad's house!! Great big signs on almost every tree!! And it wasn't because my Dad was trespassing on the property.. it was just the mentality of the new owner... "in your face"..

If written permission was required, people would not have to post signs and maintain them.

Which reminds me of my own posting experience. I had trouble with ATV's when the first became popular many years ago. I finally had enough and posted my land. The posters did not last a week. In one case they actually cut the tree down!!!

Off my box and back in my cave..

Best regards, Glenn

 

[DIYASUB]

Maybe if people werent so afraid to call these trespassers exactly what they, things might be different.
"SLOBS looking for a way to weasel their way onto places they know darned well they're not welcome to be on"

 

[HomeintheWoods]

Maintaining posters is one of my least favorite annual chores. I recently noticed that a line of my aluminum posters attached to plywood backers "blew" off. Mysteriously, the paper ones stapled on trees facing toward my land were all intact. Hmmm ....Either way, I will re-post. I post road frontage, heavily hunted bordering land where the neighbors don't control access, and lightly post borders where the neighbors control access. I have a couple borders I haven't posted in 15 years.

 

[jlh42581]

imagine if people were respectful enough to not need it? imagine if we had 1/4 of the hunters with the same amount of public land? imagine if we didnt have a huge influx during rifle season from other states because its soo easy to get a tag?

imagine the midwest!

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Theree is no set manner of posting under the crimes codde. It just needs to be posted in a way that gives notice to those entering the property. Which is one reason why signs seem to blow away so often. Signs are not needed under certain circumstances under the crimes code, but those circumstances are so goofy as to be funny. For instance, if you enter to terrroize the inhabitants, signs or no signs, it is criminal SUMMARY trespassing, If a person starts a fire, signs or no signs, it is criminal SUMMARY trespassing. Same if the person does damage to the property. Another situation is where the person enters an enclosure designed to confine livestock. ie a single strand of electric fence, is the same as a sign, however, it is misdemeanor trespassing to enter a cow pasture without consent. If you drive across a cultivated field createing ruts, it could be summary criminal trespass or vehicular trespass under the transportationn code. However, if arrestedd under by a WCO while violating another law, it may be trespassing under the Game law, with yet an entirely different set of penalties. (Which is also stupid as all get out, why should the penalty depend on who writes the citation.)

Also, if woodland capable of producing wood products such as firewood, is posted, it is technically a misdemeanor to enter. Same for posted agricultural lands.

Add to that, that in PA, district magistrates are for the most part, elected yahoos, with no requirement that they even have a high school diploma, the chances of getting someone with legal training to hear the case is less than one in 15.

I have read almost every criminal trespass case in Pa history, and have yet to find that there ever was a law requiring signs every 50 ft as some say is required. It certainly is not in the current law. So any applicable case law would have to be since the crimes code waas adopted in 1972.

Some jusidctions have enacted a betrer solution. No signs are necessary, but a symbol painted on the side of a tree within x feet of the property line is the same as a posted sign. Whether it is a blue square orange triangle etc. At least that can't be just torn off. As pointed out however, it still clutters thhe landscape with needless detractions from natural beauty.

I walked the property lines Sunday afternoon checking the posted signs that were put up in late August. All but a few had "blown away". However, the bright flourescent orange I sprayed around the signs was still present on the trees. This time I painted bright fo with a brush all the way around the tree, about chest high, so the boundary trees will be visible even from the back side and from across the hollow.

If PA would pass a permission law, these signs annd marks wouldn't be necessary.

 

[BeardedBird]

Is a muzzle blast a warning?

Negative. That would be wreckless endagerment or disorderly conduct....on your part....and would get you arrested, not the trespasser.

 

[Guest]

not if the witness is dead.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I often wondered about whether a shot in the air to get the trespasser's attn is actually a crime. If he does not see the gun before it is fired, there can be no assault. You didn't strike him so there is no battery. If the gun is never pointed at the trespasser, there is no assault. When faced with an armed trespasser, who is it possibly unreasonable to also be armed. Under the crimes code, title 18 section 501 et seq., a landowner has the right to use reasonable non-lethal force to eject a trespasser. A loud noise such as a bang is certainly non-lethal and less physical contact than beating the trespasser all the way off the property.

 

[Jbiz]

If you shoot your gun in the air in or around a tresspasser. I am betting money you will be spending the night in the county jail.

 

[DUSTER44T]

I can't believe the direction this post has taken

 

[Guest]

If you shoot your gun in the air in or around a tresspasser. I am betting money you will be spending the night in the county jail.

That's why it's best to aim right at him.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Huh officer, you talking bout that cherry bomb I lit off.

Jbiz, what crime is committed. i's jus shootin geese officer.

 

[Dale Sholder]

Since your so enamored with the midwest feel free to pack up and move there anytime you like. Dont need your attitude of less hunters in the state. Just because its what you want .

 

[Guest]

So you prefer even more hunters? Nothing's funner than hunting an area packed in like sardines.

 

[Pa-Guy]

Is a muzzle blast a warning?

Negative. That would be wreckless endagerment or disorderly conduct....on your part....and would get you arrested, not the trespasser.

Nope, you're wrong.
I was shooting at a deer!

 

[Jbiz]

Odds are its going to come down to your word vs their word...which means you'll get charged with aggravated assault, simple assault, disorderly conduct, and reckless endangerment...and they'll get charged with summary simple tresspass.

 

[sdwlucas]

Is a muzzle blast a warning?

Negative. That would be wreckless endagerment or disorderly conduct....on your part....and would get you arrested, not the trespasser.

From the news tonight:

Reported by: Nate Potter
Tuesday, Nov 24, 2009 @04:38pm EST

BEAVER TOWNSHIP, JEFFERSON COUNTY - One man was shot and another man was injured in a double shooting on Tuesday.

A witness said that two men were hunting in the woods in Beaver Township, between Punxsutawney and Brookville. A man shot one of the hunters. The other hunter turned and shot the shooter, according to the witness. The shooter was killed, and the hunter was injured.

Police responded to the shooting at 11:00 a.m.

Continue to follow the latest details on WeAreCentralPA.com and WTAJ News.

 

[GYTR]

Very sad. One guy dead and another headed to jail...hopefully for a long time.

Wonder who the witness is? Could it be the one that shot the guy dead or the hunter that was shot? How credible can their account of the shooting be? Who REALLY was the one that made the first shot? Most likely will cover each other's backs if they were the first to pull the trigger.

They better hope the witness is a neutral 3rd party that will give them some hope of getting out of this.

Looks like their hunting budget for the year will be blown on attorney's fees and loss of work due to sitting in jail.
Hopefully the truth will come out and justice will prevail.

 

[adudeuknow]

the shooter was killed so who is going to jail?

 

[MOSSYOAK1957]

Pa-Guy. I read the criminal code when it was posted last time. He's correct. I was surprised also. If you warn the trespasser and they come back then you can take legal action against them.

This is interesting reading...a few years back my son "who was 15 at the time" was walking through a field "Not posted" taking a short cut to his friends house and the guy that owned the lot lives on the upper end of it,now this is in a development where there are about 200 homes in the $200,000 to $400,000 range. Next thing my son knows the cops pull up and write him up for trespassing.
We had to go to the DJ's office a week later and ended up paying a 300.00 fine.
Funny thing is about a week later I found out the owner of the field was on the Borough Council.