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Discussion Starter #1
We all have heard about the CWD infected Deer found in Adams County, and it may be old news to some, but I just read (in PON), that the Deer originated (born) in Lycoming County. Lycoming County is not part of the CWD Zone, the area surrounding the infected site. Hunters taking Deer in the CWD Zone, can have them checked for CWD at a designated check station. If I were to take a Deer in that area, I would certainly have it tested prior to consuming it. But I found this quote, by David Wolfgang, Veterinarian in Penn State's College of Agricultural Sciences, a bit concerning.........

"According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, there is no evidence that CWD can be transferred to humans, but if I harvested a Deer near Williamsport, I would want to be sure it was disease free."

Now, this CWD testing will cost $75 per test, which would be paid of course, out of pocket by hunters in non-affected CWD zone areas. I'm fairly certain MOST hunters, even the one's that know the infected Deer was born in Lycoming, will not opt for the test. To that, I have a few questions. 1. Why is the area around where this Deer was born, not designated a CWD Zone so it can receive proper funding for hunter harvested deer to be tested. 2. How many of you would feel comfortable taking a Deer surrounding this Williamsport area, and consuming it without testing ? 3. Will this alter your hunting area choice ?
 

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Wasn't it mentioned on here that the only concern should be if you intended on consuming parts of the brain tissue and spinal cord and that the muscle tissue would be safe if prepared properly?

I'am not convinced how CWD could cross through the brain/blood barrier without affecting muscle tissue.

To answer one of your questions, right now I don't feel comfortalbe with taking any deer anywhere in the Central section of PA.
 

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The deer was born in lycoming county yes. Those farms including myself are quarinteened. A number of deer over the years at that farm and others have been tested and have come back negative for cwd.. I honestly believe you are fine to take any deer in lycoming county or anywhere else at this point. The deer the tested positive probably escaped and got infected by something whether it be wild deer, a dead elk from out west or could be anything. Hopefully they will find the link to it all. my question is Do all deer that come in contact with an infected animal then become infected.??? I have some information i will look into that.
 

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Question - Have any deer "farmers" been held legally/financially liable for the loss of wild deer anywhere ever?? As a business owner, it sounds like a liability that is taken on when starting such an operation. Seems like when CWD is found, there's deer "farms" involved a number of times.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Question - Have any deer "farmers" been held legally/financially liable for the loss of wild deer anywhere ever?? As a business owner, it sounds like a liability that is taken on when starting such an operation. Seems like when CWD is found, there's deer "farms" involved a number of times.
There is absolutely no way to hold a deer farm liable for infecting a wild herd. To me, it's like the chicken/egg deal. In other words, why couldn't the deer farmer file counter suit, saying a wild deer gave it to his herd, and took away his earning potential. Any good (or even not so good) attorney would eat that up and spit it out in court.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
If you don't mind me asking, what does the quarantine entail ? I'm assuming, it's a moratorium on transporting/selling right ? Do they only euthanize the entire herd if one happens to display symptoms, and subsequently tests positive ?
 

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Basically No deer in or out of your property. only way to come off quarantine as of now is to kill your deer and have them tested.
 

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Fleroo said:
Question - Have any deer "farmers" been held legally/financially liable for the loss of wild deer anywhere ever?? As a business owner, it sounds like a liability that is taken on when starting such an operation. Seems like when CWD is found, there's deer "farms" involved a number of times.
There is absolutely no way to hold a deer farm liable for infecting a wild herd. To me, it's like the chicken/egg deal. In other words, why couldn't the deer farmer file counter suit, saying a wild deer gave it to his herd, and took away his earning potential. Any good (or even not so good) attorney would eat that up and spit it out in court.
Excellent point! I think potentially the deer farmer could file the initial suit if he had his herd tested, which I guess can't happen if you have to kill them first to test them. Not advocating it, just wondering about it as a "reality"? in a suit-happy world when there are "livelihoods" and profits involved.
 

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The state Department of Ag, and the federal USDA both have rules and procedures if an infectious disease were to infect domesticated herds.

Think back to the Mad Cow Disease discoveries several years ago in the US. Entire herds were slaughtered. One example. There are other diseases that would mandate quarantine or worse quickly wit huge fines if ignored.


This is no different. Though the inital question is on liability if the disease infects the wild herd, at this point the PA Depart of Ag is not mandating a no move rule for deer in the state on captive farms. The ability for deer farmers to continue to buy, sell, trade, or swap deer without penalty is an invitation for the potential spread of this disease much further around this state and into other states.

However, my larger point is, like mad cow disease that is similar to CWD, the response on the state and federal level was swift and sure. Herds were removed from the face of the earth and tested to ensure the safety of the food supply and the larger cattle / meat product industry.

Here we have the introduction of the disease into this state from a known trackable source and nothing is being done to stop the spread unless there was some interaction at some point on farms. Hunting in PA is a multi billion dollar industry. The captive deer farms in PA are also a big dollar addition to the states economy.

The question is: why is the Department of Ad not taking this seriously as they would a similar disease in the cattle, swine or avian industries?

A cattle, swine, or avian farmer knows that his entire operation could come under quarantine or be killed off at the direction of the Ag Department if certain diseases are present. They further understand that if other diseases are found, some stock could never be sold if they had the potential for health issues in other herds or health of the consuming public.

Not so with CWD.
 

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holedigger said:
Fleroo said:
Question - Have any deer "farmers" been held legally/financially liable for the loss of wild deer anywhere ever?? As a business owner, it sounds like a liability that is taken on when starting such an operation. Seems like when CWD is found, there's deer "farms" involved a number of times.
There is absolutely no way to hold a deer farm liable for infecting a wild herd. To me, it's like the chicken/egg deal. In other words, why couldn't the deer farmer file counter suit, saying a wild deer gave it to his herd, and took away his earning potential. Any good (or even not so good) attorney would eat that up and spit it out in court.
Excellent point! I think potentially the deer farmer could file the initial suit if he had his herd tested, which I guess can't happen if you have to kill them first to test them. Not advocating it, just wondering about it as a "reality"? in a suit-happy world when there are "livelihoods" and profits involved.


Hard to prove if you ask me.

The GC has had a very active and certified program for CWD resting in this state for about a decade.

No cases of CWD in the wild or in captive herds have been detected in PA - even in areas adjacent to other states with infection. Even them, the Adams county farm is hours away from the closest other out of state location with infection.

It would be a huge leap to accept the wild herd infection angle. Even in court with a lawyer, the claim has to be backed up with factual evidence and in a case like this, expert witnesses would need to make the claim and defend it. The evidence just isn't there and experts like the money reputation garners. So, few if any would get on board with a basically or far fetched claim.
 

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The deer the tested positive probably escaped and got infected by something whether it be wild deer, a dead elk from out west or could be anything. Hopefully they will find the link to it all.

My question is Do all deer that come in contact with an infected animal then become infected.??? I have some information i will look into that.
Possibly the most preposterous statement made yet, in relation to CWD in PA?

Two deer from the New Oxford location have now tested positive for CWD.

The other 8 came back "undetected", which in plain language means they either didn't have CWD, or it hadn't progressed far enough in them yet, TO be detected via current methods.

One deer from the same New Oxford location, escaped on Oct. 17 (while the others were being killed) and is still in the wild.

One deer that had been in contact at some point, with other deer from connected locations in York Co. and at New Oxford, escaped months ago from an unlicensed deer farming operation.

How in the world could anyone come up with an idea like this:

The deer the tested positive probably escaped and got infected by something whether it be wild deer, a dead elk from out west or could be anything.
IF those deer escaped,then were recovered and returned to their pen, that would've had to have been reported to AG? Was it?

There is some credence in the scientific community that has been studying CWD for years, that CWD may well have originated years ago, when another TSE disease, sheep scrapie, somehow made the biological "jump" from the scrapie TSE, to CWD in deer and elk.

Why? Because (IIRC), captive deer or elk were introduced into an enviroment that had once held sheep infected with the scrapie TSE.

CWD has been found in both captive and wild cervids in many parts of the US. The chicken vs the egg question may well be that CWD has spread so widely around the country, simply because farmed cervids themselves, have been so widely distributed around the country in the past 40 years or so?

It is the only common thread so far, in trying to figure out how CWD may have originated in one place, but is now found in so many places, so far apart?

Wild elk or deer did not travel from Colorado to NY, MD or PA. But captive cervids have been for years. Body parts have traveled about the country, as well. So it is going to take more research to finally sort out the chicken vs egg part.

In the meantime, put an end to the transportation of captive cervids. Just in case? No one needs to transport them, other than for commercial purposes.

And as noted, when contagious domestic livestock diseases strike, quarantine and destruction is the accepted protocol, with resultant losses to those whose animals are affected.

BTW, I asked Dr. Schultz (AG vet) on Nov. 2, if AG is following the same protocals in dealing with CWD in captive cervids, as they would be if it was a contagious disease in domestic livestock. He insisted that they are. But some of us see little evidence of it thus far?
 

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Anyone know where in Lycoming county the deer was born?(What town/township) We have a cabin in Lycoming, and would like to know if we are near the birthplace.
Thanks,
Ron G.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Article alluded to Williamsport area. My guess is that you can look at the quarantine farm list, find the Lycoming Co. location(s) on that list, and get an exact address.
 

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This should be it:

Mike Schilling, Lost Mtn Whitetails, 6464 Jacks Hollow Road, Williamsport, PA

Appears to be along Jack's Mtn. more or less south of the Duboistown area, which is west of South Williamsport.
 

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DennyF said:
The deer the tested positive probably escaped and got infected by something whether it be wild deer, a dead elk from out west or could be anything. Hopefully they will find the link to it all.

My question is Do all deer that come in contact with an infected animal then become infected.??? I have some information i will look into that.
Possibly the most preposterous statement made yet, in relation to CWD in PA?

Two deer from the New Oxford location have now tested positive for CWD.

The other 8 came back "undetected", which in plain language means they either didn't have CWD, or it hadn't progressed far enough in them yet, TO be detected via current methods.

One deer from the same New Oxford location, escaped on Oct. 17 (while the others were being killed) and is still in the wild.

One deer that had been in contact at some point, with other deer from connected locations in York Co. and at New Oxford, escaped months ago from an unlicensed deer farming operation.

How in the world could anyone come up with an idea like this:

The deer the tested positive probably escaped and got infected by something whether it be wild deer, a dead elk from out west or could be anything.
IF those deer escaped,then were recovered and returned to their pen, that would've had to have been reported to AG? Was it?

There is some credence in the scientific community that has been studying CWD for years, that CWD may well have originated years ago, when another TSE disease, sheep scrapie, somehow made the biological "jump" from the scrapie TSE, to CWD in deer and elk.

Why? Because (IIRC), captive deer or elk were introduced into an enviroment that had once held sheep infected with the scrapie TSE.

CWD has been found in both captive and wild cervids in many parts of the US. The chicken vs the egg question may well be that CWD has spread so widely around the country, simply because farmed cervids themselves, have been so widely distributed around the country in the past 40 years or so?

It is the only common thread so far, in trying to figure out how CWD may have originated in one place, but is now found in so many places, so far apart?

Wild elk or deer did not travel from Colorado to NY, MD or PA. But captive cervids have been for years. Body parts have traveled about the country, as well. So it is going to take more research to finally sort out the chicken vs egg part.

In the meantime, put an end to the transportation of captive cervids. Just in case? No one needs to transport them, other than for commercial purposes.

And as noted, when contagious domestic livestock diseases strike, quarantine and destruction is the accepted protocol, with resultant losses to those whose animals are affected.

BTW, I asked Dr. Schultz (AG vet) on Nov. 2, if AG is following the same protocals in dealing with CWD in captive cervids, as they would be if it was a contagious disease in domestic livestock. He insisted that they are. But some of us see little evidence of it thus far?
Exactly. I think most of us understand how this disease has moved around the country. It is rather arrogant to suggest a wild PA deer gave it to the captive deer. There are plenty of these "operations" scattered around my area. I use the quotes because most of them are simply a few deer that some guy with a full-time job somewhere else has in a pen in his back yard as a hobby or a get rich quick scheme. You may be in it full time and have made millions of $$$. good for you. Even so, that does not take away from the shady, unregualted, nature of most of these haphazard operations.
 
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