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This may sound silly but with the current not really a preference system instead of adding your name to the drawing 10 times if you have applied 10 times, why not add your name based on the number of years from when you applied each year until now.

For example if you applied in 2001 your name would be added to the drawing 16 times.

And so on for each year you applied.

So the more years you applied, the more names in the hat so to speak.
 

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I could be wrong and I have been wrong a million times before but I think that's what they do now...The longer you apply your name appears that many times on the list, but I could be wrong..


They need a real preference system, to honor Loyalty to commitment, 50% of the tags goes those with the maximum number of points, 13's first...25% from 8-12...25% 1-7...that seems like a fair system to me ....
 

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your name is entered 1 time for every year that you have applied

and although there may be better ways:
1- i have no issues with how it's currently run, haven't drawn and doesn't hurt my feelings
2- it's a bit late in the game to switch things up, if you did it now there would be all sorts of cries out of how unfair it is... someone didn't enter because they knew they couldn't hunt a few of the different years, so now they are in one of the 25% brackets, or this reason, or that reason

i would like to win as much as the next person, but for $10.70 i'm going to put in my name and not worry about it, enjoy the heck out of the experience if i get it but not worry if i don't
 

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Pa uses a pure "bonus" point system and not a "preference" point system which does exist in some states but it is different. With a straight bonus point system you get 1 bonus point for each time you apply or buy a point.

Some states for some species like Nevada and Montana use a modified bonus point system. They square your points for each year. So a person the first year can win with just his single point (1 x 1) but a person with 13 years applying will have 169 points (13 x 13). The system is exponentially rigged towards those with longevity.
 

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In a preference point system a certain number of points are required to get a tag. A person will know to within a few years when they will get a tag. It's within a few years because one of the negative nuances of a preference point system is "point creep". Usually there are more people with the required points than there are tags available.

For example; Maybe 15 points are required and there are 50 tags available but 75 people have the required points. 50 of them get the tag but 25 will have to wait for 16 points. The required points creep up.

When I started applying for Wyoming bighorn it required 12 points to guarantee a tag. I now have 14 points but 18 were required last year. I expect by the time I get to 18, 20 will be required. I'll eventually get there but I am now 60 years old.

Some states for some species, like Wyoming, use a modified preference and bonus point system. For Wyoming bighorn like 90% of the tags are on a strict preference point system as described above but 10% of the tags are on a pure bonus point system. Since I don't have the required number of preference points I get put in the 10% bonus point draw with 14 chances.
 

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The 75/25 system is the way to go and they can still adopt it now and make it work.

75% of the tags are guaranteed to those with the most points, and 25% are drawn from everyone else.

This greatly increases the odds for those with the most points and actually gives them PREFERENCE. As it stands now with the eve increasing total number of names in the drawing and fluctuating tag allotments from year to year, the odds never increase for anyone, doesn't matter how many points you have.
 

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TraskOutdoors said:
The 75/25 system is the way to go and they can still adopt it now and make it work.
You need to think it through, do the math if you think that will work in Pa where 13 is the maximum points now, there are a HUGE pool of people that CURRENTLY have 13 points, certainly a 1000, maybe 5000, almost everyone on this board probably. But to keep things nice and round lets say a 1000. Optimistically 100 tags are available, so 75 people with 13 points will get tags. Next year 75 people with 14 points will get tags, the year after 75 with 15 points get tags, and on and on... You cannot live long enough to guarantee if you have 13 points now that you will ever get a tag but 20 years from now it is guaranteed you will need 33 points to just be considered in the 75% crowd and the years will grow beyond that until it gets insanely high, until that huge pool is satisfied by success, giving up, or death.

If you are in the pool of 1000's that currently has 12 points it is guaranteed you will not live long enough to ever enter that top 75% echelon. You are destined for eternity to only be considered for the yearly 25% round of tags. Switching now condemns anyone that doesn't have at least 13 points now to only ever be considered in the 25% pool.

For drawings where the applicants VASTLY exceed the number of available tags a preference point system just doesn't work well because point creep will be overwhelming. A random draw with no points, bonus points where longevity is given a modest advantage, or a modified bonus system that heavily rewards longevity (not just those with 1 specific years worth of points) is more palatable to most people.
 

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tundragriz said:
TraskOutdoors said:
The 75/25 system is the way to go and they can still adopt it now and make it work.
You need to think it through, do the math if you think that will work in Pa where 13 is the maximum points now, there are a HUGE pool of people that CURRENTLY have 13 points, certainly a 1000, maybe 5000, almost everyone on this board probably. But to keep things nice and round lets say a 1000. Optimistically 100 tags are available, so 75 people with 13 points will get tags. Next year 75 people with 14 points will get tags, the year after 75 with 15 points get tags, and on and on... You cannot live long enough to guarantee if you have 13 points now that you will ever get a tag but 20 years from now it is guaranteed you will need 33 points to just be considered in the 75% crowd and the years will grow beyond that until it gets insanely high, until that huge pool is satisfied by success, giving up, or death.

If you are in the pool of 1000's that currently has 12 points it is guaranteed you will not live long enough to ever enter that top 75% echelon. You are destined for eternity to only be considered for the yearly 25% round of tags. Switching now condemns anyone that doesn't have at least 13 points now to only ever be considered in the 25% pool.

For drawings where the applicants VASTLY exceed the number of available tags a preference point system just doesn't work well because point creep will be overwhelming. A random draw with no points, bonus points where longevity is given a modest advantage, or a modified bonus system that heavily rewards longevity (not just those with 1 specific years worth of points) is more palatable to most people.
No, there certainly aren't any GUARANTEES with any lottery system.

I would just like to see some sort of a system adopted that actually, truly rewards and gives preference to those who have applied religiously since day one. The reality is that with the current system, however unlikely it may be, there COULD come a year when nobody with max points is drawn because that is how a lottery works. There are people that draw every year that are applying their very first time.

I do think that a modified bonus point system sounds like a really good way to go and it is something that they could apply right away. Will those with few points be irritated? Probably, but as it stands now, those with max points do not have that much greater odds than someone applying for the first time...
 
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