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Discussion Starter #1
I see that Eabco has a barrel I can get for my TC in 6.5 BRM. Has anyone shot this round? They claim it is real light recoil, but the equivalant of a 190 gr. .308 in terms of energy and flatness. I have herd good things about the 6.5mm chamberings, but this is the only place I have seen anything for the 6.5 BRM. They sell dies, brass, as wellas loaded ammo. Any input would be appriciated!

Bob
 

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The 6.5 BRM is a basically a 219 donaldson wasp necked up to 6.5.. Which could also be foremed using 30-30 brass. You would be driving the 140 grain bullets around 2400-2500 or so.. Now since the encores and tenders seem to favor rimmed cartridges this would be a outstanding round for them.. That is fine if you want to full around with wildcats like i do. However the straight 260 would be a nice choice as well.. Its alot faster, easier to form, not to mention alot cheaper as well..
 

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I like the Encore and single shot rifles. The 6.5 BRM is basically(as said above) a necked down 30-30 case. IMO a rimmed cartridge is the perfect case for single shot break action rifles. Allowing you to headspace off the rim, and not the shoulder, so the gap between the barrel and frame face is rendered inconsequential. And by doing this you can do away with the "Encore misfire" problem.

The 30-30 case is actually a pretty efficient case. And is probably perfectly balanced in the 6.5 caliber. I can see a 6.5BRM barrel in my future. Either a 6.5 BRM or a 30-40 Krag for my Encore.

There are alot of great choices for the 6.5 caliber rifle. But for an Encore barrel the 6.5 BRM is probably the best 6.5 choice. Tom.
 

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"equivalant of a 190 gr. .308 in terms of energy" clearly a misrepresentation. it cheats by not saying the fps of a 190 308!

This is a wildcat, so you will 'play' with it. I like the30-30 based cases, including the 219 zipper. cases are usually free at the range the week before Pa deer season.

Not sure if you have a pistol or rifle?

A more common standard 30-30 based cartridge is the 7\30-30 also named the 7mm Waters (factory). I shoot one in a T/c contender and it is a nice deer cartridge, but with the short pistol barrel (12") it doesn't reach its potential as would the 6.5/30-30. In fact the 6.5 30-30 aka 6.5 BRM is even more over bore in the smaller barrels.

For pistol cartridges based upon the 30-30 case I prefer for deer:--30 herrett, 7-30 Waters, 375 winchester, and the 358 Herrett.

Making my Herret cases is a long process to get 100 cases. The 7-30 Waters and the 375 I can buy 100 brass at most gun shows, cheap. More time to shoot.

If you have a rifle (encore) I'd just go to the 260 remington. That is my personal go-to rifle on my rack for deer in PA.
 

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HOGGHEAD said:
I like the Encore and single shot rifles. IMO a rimmed cartridge is the perfect case for single shot break action rifles. Allowing you to headspace off the rim, and not the shoulder, so the gap between the barrel and frame face is rendered inconsequential.
Hogg, you and I have discussed this before. But even with a rimmed case, after firing in an Encore, in which the case isn't actually locked in place by anything, since there is a gap behind the case, wouldn't the case expand backward, and the shoulder out to the chamber?

After I shoot a 30-06 in my Encore, the case is all the way back against the frame wall, and the shoulder all the way against the chamber.

Don't see how a rimed cartridge would help any?

I do get the piece about Misfires, although I have never had one with my Encore.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
What about a .264 win mag? I like throwing pills downrange that produce the "red mist" Of course, this is for woodchuckin. I enjoy eating my deer. I came across the 6.5mm rounds and they seem to be what I am lookin for. Light recoil, and explosive down range. I do not want a .22 caliber anything other than my ruger 10/22. I dont like to factor wind. Never been good at it. Is the 6.5 a good round for windy days? I load my .243 with 55 grainers, and it seems to do well, but I have noticed the wind effecting it as close as 100 yards. It wasn't that windy. Thanks in advance.
 

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got 2 questions for you... How fast do you want to go.. And how much mist do you want to create?? LOL... Seriously the 6.5 will buck the wind with the best of them.. If i was going to go straight for a fast 6.5 for hogs only I would get either a 6.5wsm or 6.5x284 and drive the 95gr vmax as fast as i possibly could... I can tell you this.. I currently own 3 different 6.5's.. 6.5x284, 6.5k(6.5x300rsuam improved), and 2 6.5x300 weatherbys ackley improved.. If your looking to go fast with the big 140-142 grain bullets the weatherby will do it.. I can drive them 3600fps in my weatherbys bbl life is short at around 1200-1400rounds. But talk about a devistating ghog gun lolol.. I have litterly blew them out of thier holes at 1000+ yds and made them do flips with it..

Keep in mind all my bbls have a 8 twist for the heavys.. I have found that the 95gr vmax will only stay stable to 3550 in a 8 twist after that they will blow up about 20 feet out the bbl.. My 6.5k will drive the 140's to around 3300 and the 6.5x284 to about 3000...

Now i assume this would be on a Encore or the likes I would seriously look at the 6.5x284 and run 9 twist and drive the snot out the 95gr vmax you would get around 3400-3500fps with them and a 9 twist would stablize them much better... Just my 2cents..

as a side note i would get it in a long 30" bbl.. 28 at the shortest..
 

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John Henry said:
Hogg, you and I have discussed this before. But even with a rimmed case, after firing in an Encore, in which the case isn't actually locked in place by anything, since there is a gap behind the case, wouldn't the case expand backward, and the shoulder out to the chamber?
Yes you are correct. The case will lengthen because of the gap. But you are not looking at it from the case anymore because the case is not headspacing on the shoulder-it is head spacing on the rim.

So I never just neck size cases for my Encores. I always bump the shoulder back as well. This allows the case to sit in the chamber with no problem. Then the case can not be driven in any further(by the firing pin) because the rim stops the case from seating farther into the chamber. And since the rim stops the case from going into the chamber you get a 100% reliable, and consistent primer strike-hence no misfires because of improper sizing. Tom.
 

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Tcp. I shoot 87 gr in my 243 for this reason; they kill groundhogs just as good but are not as wind prone.

My 260 uses 100 grain bullets (handloads)for varmints (badgers/'otes). It is a Kimber and light for PD shooting.

Using 85-87 grain bullets mades the 243 a good long range varmint gun, my longest on hog is 530 yds. I've shot to 1000+ with the 243 on PDs, not got one over 1000 ......yet. But the 243 is the one I use in ND and SD for long range PDs.
 

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With all this 6.5 talk here lately one would almost think it's a popular caliber. Almost.
 

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The 6.5's, all versions of them are getting alot of press and use in all forms of competitive shooting these days...from 1000 yds, 600 yrds and the various groudhog matches formats, from 100 to 500 yds..they are seeing the growth because of the fine benchrest quality bullets that are being made these days by custom companies and lots of the regular manufacturers...light recoil and quick return to battery recovery makes them nice for 1000 yd shooting..they seem to be a little hammpered up-close at the 100 and 200 ranges at ground hog matches compared to the ppc and br but they hold their own at 300 and 500..the little 6.5 x 47 Lapua has never become the winner that I thought it was going to be competitive shooting but it's still being messed with on the sniper matches and mitlitary ranges.. 6.5's...great caliber, more than capable of talking for themselves off the bench...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
6.5 Bandit said:
got 2 questions for you... How fast do you want to go.. And how much mist do you want to create??

as a side note i would get it in a long 30" bbl.. 28 at the shortest..
I was hoping to create total mist, follwed by the sonic boom, blowing the grass around the carcass! lol It would deffinantly be for my pro hunter. I would have to get it in 26 inch at best. I think the 28's are for pro hunters only, and they only make certian calibers. I would have to custom shop order it, so the wait would be horrible. I just looked in my Eabco catalog, and I can get the 6.5-284 norma chamber as well as the 6.5x55 swed. 1:8 twist only

Which one is better?

Thanks
Bob
 

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Both are very good.. I prefer the 6.5x284 just because its a tad bit faster.. The 8 twist will allow you to run the heavies the 140 amax you should get around 3000fps that is where those bullets tend to shine.. Now they amax is not a very explosive bullet but it sure does punish them pretty well.. For hogs dont even waste time with the matchkings they are to hard and most of the time punch right through hogs.. I have personnaly seen to many hogs run off when hit with them.. You will be able to push that 95gr vmax to about 3400 or more but getting it to shoot in the 8 twist is a whole other story.. I would check out that 123 or even the 120 grain amaxs and drive them hard as possible with accuracy of course... Now with all that being said what distace are you looking at shooting?? If your planing on shoot long the heaiver bullets with the high BC's are gonna be the way to go and have the best wind bucking ability... Thats not saying the lighter 120's wont make it because they sure will you just have to adjust for it alittle more..

Here is a pic compairing the 6.5x284 and the 6.5x55

 

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I would like to say thank you to everyone that have placed post on this area of the forum on all the 6.5 calibers.

Ever since I have read about the 6.5 Swede being the most perfect whitetail deer caliber and seeing people shoot them at my club..Also seeing how accurate there are even in old miltary rifles I always wanted one. Now I would want the 6.5 Swede but not in a miltary rifle but in an Encore long gun barrel..
As posted here...You can get ON THE SHELF custom Encore 6.5 Swede and 6.5 BRM from E. A. Brown. They are 26 inches long and are blued not stainless. They might even have the 260 on the shelf too..

I have now mixed emotions about the two...6.5 BRM and the 6.5 Swede... Interesting that the 6.5 BRM would be less prone for misfires in Encores. However there is the thing that it's a wildcat round. So if you ever wanted to sale the barrel it might be a bit harder to sale then a 6.5 Swede. However probably not that hard to sale a 6.5 BRM Encore barrel. Is it easy to form the 6.5 BRM cases from 30/30 brass? 30/30 brass just seems kind of flimsy or weaker then just say 308 Brass?
 

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Is it easy to form them?? Yes and no.. If you bought 30/30 brass you would first need to take a dremel and chop a bunch of the neck off the original case neck.. once that is done you will need to step the 30/30 case down in 2 stages.. You will need to go from 30 to 7 then down to 6.5.. Once that is all done then you can fireform them to the BRM.. Now to make it easier if you can get your hands on some 219 Donaldson wasp brass you can just neck it straight up to 6.5 then fireform... I have did some searching but cant come up with any case specs on the BRM.. If someone knows what they are please let me know and I can show you a pic compairing the 3 (219DW, 30/30 & the BRM).. But going off of what I have read here is a rough look at the BRM.. Again DONT go off these specs it maybe wrong. I just basically took the 219DW and necked it up to 6.5 as a compairison..

 

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Hi,
New to the forum. I have a EABCO T/C Encore barrel in 6.5 BRM.
Here are some recent loads and comments for the 6.5 BRM;

I have yet to have a bad shooting load with this cartridge. Some are just much more consistant than others. Mostly powder issues. EABCO has a few published loads but as Brown has said "he is not in the loading manual business". The loads EABCO has published are very safe and hard to screw up with. The powders that I have found to be more versatile are RL15 and RL 17. IMR 4350 has been more consistant than H4350. and in my barrel for this T/C Encore, the RL 15 & 17 have been the big winners. I am going to start a "ladder" test run of IMR 4007ssc next week. and some further IMR 4350 load testing. This testing is complete and will post if anyone is interested.

There are some issues with EABCO's pre-formed brass. in that the shoulder datum i.e., head space is .014"-.017" short of the actual chamber datum (in this barrel) and I suspect most of the barrels. This results in very short case life (3-4 loadings) if you just plunge ahead and start loading.

I found I have to fire form all the R-P pre-formed cases from Brown. I use 7.5 gr of Unique covered by a light tissue wad to hold the powder in place, followed by cream of wheat or corn meal to the neck and a tight fitting tissue wad to compact and fill the remainder of the neck. If you are going to use this method, shoot the loads right away do not put them aside and shoot them next week. They may absorb moisture and the COW could form a hard chunk! This would not be good!

This will not necessarily form out the shoulder completely, but, it will bring the case shoulder to the datum of the chamber ( you will find the cases shrink a couple of thousand of an inch, this is good). Also these cases are covered in some sort of lube that was used in the forming (I assume a hydraulic process) They must be degreased. The cases prior to fire-forming are run through a Hornady 7m/m short neck size die ( 7/m/m Waters die will also work) to expand the neck and then run through Brown's 6.5BRM FL die just enough to form a false shoulder that provides a "crush" fit . Load it with the above fire form load and bang away. Chamber and cases must be degeased. I have loaded some of these cases 12-13 times. Annealing after 5-6 firings. W-W cases I have used have been slightly smaller in capacity however shooting results have not shown a significant difference in performance. By using virgin brass W-W or Rem or Hornady(Hornady is my preference) You have the ability to control the case length. The Brown pre-formed R-P cases are too short limiting the amount of neck tension /seating length. The case mouths are well short of the chamber end. The actual chamber length in my rifle is 2.030". There is no reason to shorten the cases to less than 2.015" I trim all cases to 2.015" after fire forming and FL sizing. Keep the neck as long as you can. Verify the actual chamber length of your rifle.

Consentricity is the key to consistant accuracy in this cartridge. You have to keep projectile run-out to a MINIMUM. It will shoot almost any load to less than MOA. 1/2 MOA is easy to achieve with zero run out cartridges. Suprisingly, some of the most consistant 1/2 MOa loads have been with 120 Nosler Ballistic tips and 130 Nos Accubond.

The throat is long and a fine line between seating the bullets out as close to the lands as possible and still maintaining enough neck tension by seating the bullet deep enough in the case to maintain consistant ingition /pressure. Especially with the slower burning powders. The real long bullets like the Nosler 130 and 140 Accubond are able to be seated deep enough and not have to make a long jump to the lands. Bullets with long boat tails have been a concentricity head ache, i.e., A-Max and Berger bullets. Brown offers a VLD seating plug for the seating die. This is a must have or drill the seating plug out another 1/4" to allow the plug to engage the ogive rather than balancing the projectile on the point.

Here are a few loads;

130 gr Nosler Accubond, 32.5 gr RL-15, cci200 primer, seated .050" from lands. this has been a consistant 1/2 MOA shooter velocity chrono's at 2533 fps and I don't consider it a MAX load. Getting close though.

140 gr Sierra Game King, 35.3 gr RL 17, cci 200 primer, 2434fps. this has been a consistant .800" shooter. I have found that this powder will allow a bit more velocity with out showing signs of pressure. But it shoots about the same size groups. This is a nominal load for what the round was designed for.

If you substitute the Nosler 140 Accubond back off a the load a bit. and work up. It will generate another 70 fps . I believe that if you are getting velocities around 2500fps with any 140 grain bullet you are at MAX. It will still shoot well but case life suffers. In the T/C encore this is as far as I feel it shoud be pushed. The Brown 97 rifle might handle a bit more but I understand extraction can be an issue. I'd love this in a Ruger #1.

RL 17 inquiries to Alliant brought this response;

"We have no data for this cartridge. RL 17 is similar to IMR 4350 in burn speed and reloading data. You can use the same starting load for both, but this is not saying their max loads will be exactly the same.

However, they will be similar. Thanks for your note and have a nice day."


To a certain extent this is true, I started with a 34 gr load of each powder(IMR 4350 and RL17) w/ Sierra 140 gr Game King W-W cases , CCI200 primer, the IMR load chrono'd 2170 fps and the RL17 2350 fps! Not exactly interchangable data! All other load factors were the same.

120 gr Nosler Ballistic tip, 33.5 gr RL15, cci 200 primer, 2611 fps this is one of the most consistantly accurate loads I have put through this rifle always(if I do my part) under 1/2 MOA. One 5 shot group went into .365" c-t-c @ 100 yds. This bullet has to make a big jump to the lands and still produces excellent results. I do not like the Ballistic tip for hunting anything bigger than coyotes but for accuracy I have found in every rifle I have shot them through, that they are the standard I judge by.

I have posted many loads for this round on Ammoguide.com but access is limited to paid members. Since there is a lack of published loads for this cartridge I will be happy to share any other info regarding this cartridge and the 50-60 different loads I have shot. with anyone, just PM me.
This is not 6.5-.284 or other high velocity 6.5. It is a fun easy to load for wildcat that is certainly capable of killing whitetails and pronghorns quite handily. I would not risk an expensive elk hunt on the limited abilities of the round but anything the 6.5 Swede will do this will do. I haven't shot any thing lighter than 120 gr bullets but if you find a load that will shoot the lighter "varmint" bullets it should be a great rodent killer.

Sorry this got so lenghty.
 

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I noticed in earlier posts some headspace questions. Just a note regarding headspace in the 6.5 BRM (or most any rimmed cartridge in the Encore,Ruger#1 or any single shot (30-30 won't headspace well on the shoulder))these should be headspaced to the shoulder. If you just 'blow' the shoulder forward relying on the rim for headspace, it will stretch the case and reduce life of the case and possibly a head separation. In my previous post regarding the fire forming of EA Browns "ready made" fire-formed cases this will occur. It is just as easy to start with virgin brass 30-30's a brand of your choosing.
I find once fired brass sometimes requires annealing to make the forming process simple and without case failures. Hard to beat the price of range pickups. WW and Rem brass is very soft and forms easily. Hornady 30-30 brass I have found to be not quite as soft and as a result will not fireform without bumping up the charge of Unique to 8.0 gr.
Do not trim the cases until you have fireformed them as they will shrink a few thousandths. If it's done right. If you size to a "crush" fit the case will not flow forward it blows out radially. I have several cases that have been loaded 20 times now( Hornady) I keep track of these particular cases just to see how far they will go. Annealed every 5 firings. I shoot several other wildcat rounds (a couple of my design)in the Encore and Ruger #1 and the Encore will produce some incredible groups. Browns barrels are superb. I have barrels from Bullberry and MGM but the Brown and Bullberry shoot the best. Bullberry's forend hanger system is a huge improvement over the Thompson / Center system. Bullberry makes a 6.5 round that is virtually identical to the 6.5BRM. Called the 6.5 Bullberry. A friend has a 6mm BRM and it is superbly accurate a great varmint round, but not the deer killer that the 6.5 is.
I shot the 6.5 today with a 130 gr Nos AB,34.5 gr IMR 4007, BR2 primer, 2500fps, at 200 yards and the 5 shot group measures .485" c-t-c. The best I have done with this round to date. Even a blind dog finds a bone once in a while.
 

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Sportclay you got some great info here thanks.. A question for ya though.. Could you possibly give me complete diamensions of the case?? ie start and end of shoulder hight and lenght of neck, Case diameter above rim and at start of shoulder??
 

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some dimensions;
The chamber in this 6.5BRM barrel is 2.030"
case length; 2.015" (trimmed)
base dia, .415"
shoulder dia, .405"
bottom of base to shoulder, 1.650"
bottom of base to shoulder/neck junction, 1.776"
neck dia, .293"
Rim thickness(WW case).055"
These are taken from a trimmed and neckturned case, fired, before sizing. I turn all necks to .012" wall thickness.

Browns chamber in this barrel is very tight. One batch of 30-30 brass I acquired at a gun show(once fired R-P) wouldn't chamber with a loaded round. until I turned the neck. Since then I turn all the necks and accuracy has been a lot more repeatable.
The base of the neck is a radius rather than an abrupt transition. Neck length is approximately .240-.245. I you use the dimensions on Browns web site the neck length figures to .270" I wish it was that length! Almost like a Weatherby round.
37.gr of H4350 will fill to the base of the neck.
It would be almost impossible to overload this round with H4350 or 4831 and a 140 gr bullet You could underload it with those powders.!!
I use a lot of 30-30 cases for several other cartridges and the uniformity varies by lot. Sometimes a LOT. Hornady and the last batch of WW were very consistant.
I can't reccommend the Barnes TSX bullets in this round. the velocities are not high enough to get reliable expansion. I am going to load some Northfork bullets I have for another 6.5 rifle(6.5x53R- 256 Mannlicher- an English Double) They should expand reliably. How they will shoot? I am a big fan of Northfork bullets they have a wide usable velocity range. http://www.northforkbullets.com/magento/bullets/
This has been a fun cartridge to play with and am looking forward to hunting this year with it. The accuracy from the start has been exceptional. If you like tinkering with wildcats this is an easy to load round. The Brown people are great to do business with. Browns dies are a combination of Lee FL size die and Hornady seating die. I was always a bit sceptical of Lee dies until I bought a set a few years ago.
Hope this helps.
 
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