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Discussion Starter #1
Had to happen! On the spur of the moment, I bought an early model Renegade .50 flintlock. She looked really good, with a tight lock and good unset pull.
The bore was dirty, but not fouled. When I got her home, She patched a touch orange. There's one spot of pitting, but the rest looked good.
She rams like a cobblestone street though. Numerous tight and loose spots.
Ugh.
I JB'd the daylights out of her, but she's still a tough ram.
With 70 gr of 3f Swiss and a .490 ball, it tried .015 and .018 patches. Numerous tears and a couple blown patches. Groups were generally 3 inches or better. A few were ok though. Range was 50 yards.
I tried some .010 patches, expecting worse results but low and behold 3 rounders at 50 were 1 /5/16 to 1 5/8!
The tight/ loose spots can still be felt, but not nearly as bad.
This Renegade is something. I shoot it better than any other flintlock I've tried.
The bore is frustrating and after flintlock season I'm planning on having her rebored/ rifled to .54 for ball.
Never thought I'd be successful with the flint. Pays to not give up!
 

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Polish that bore with a jag and 0000 steel wool (ONLY) and oil.She will polish right up and be a shooter if it doesn't have a ringed barrel or damaged crown.Tighter patches give cleaner burn like the rings on a piston.Might try .495 RB also. Had some like FFFg and some like FFg.Generally the 50's like FFg with 80 gr being common ground.That FFFg Swiss is pretty fast burning. Groups less than 1 1/2" are common.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Did the steel wool, even put some valve grinding compound on a tight leather patch and had at it. It did smooth some, but nothing short of a full lap will even it out. TC rifling is shallow enough as it is...
I believe part of the problem was the lube getting squeezed out of the patch. I was swabbing with rubbing alcohol and ramming was miserable with .015s. Been using Bore Butter patches to swab and it really helped. But the .010s surprised me.
If she's to be a ball gun, I think a .54 is a great choice.
Gotta keep at it though. Flintlock shooting is a perishable skill.
 

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Bob Hoyt can take it out to 54 and give you a good twist. I just got one done in a 1/ 38 twist for conicals. He does good work and has good rates.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
That's who I was thinking of. One of his radius grooved rebored. I'm thinking of staying 1-48 but groove depth for patched ball. Had a bad experience with a Green Mountain .50 cal slow twist. To even get reasonable groups, it was a powder piggy. I don't want/ need to pour 110 grains down bore. 70-90 is fine and a 1-48 will do nicely.
 

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Good morning Muddly! A 1:48 twist in a 45 cal will do an acceptable job using a patched ball, and in a 50 cal it truely is a "comprimise twist", many guns shooting conical or ball with it. In a 54cal a round ball twist is around 1:60- 1:70.

Before you get the Renegade rebored, (not a bad idea from what I read), try this:
put the powder down bore, then a shooting patch all the way down to the charge. Putting it downbore so far as the short starter allows will work too. The idea is to help stop the hole in the patch on the ball from letting gases by and killing accuracy.
Now, load whichever patched ball you've found most accurate and try it. Yup, extra patch over the charge. Some guns that put holes in patches shoot fine with this arrangement. Read about it in a Blackpowder Manual written by Sam Fadala, and darned if it didn't work!:smile2:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the tip! Was thinking about a wool wad too. Don't have any at the moment, but old pre lubed patches I do.
I definately want to keep her for ball. I have my Firehawk for bullet and sabot.
 

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It may not be the rough bore that's causing you as many problems. Way back when we only had access to the stuff shops kept around for us... I always thought it was more of an afterthought so they didn't have to listen to us complain, I used whatever I could find for patches. One time I ran across a pack of .010 patches and didn't have a choice. They loaded so much nicer in my TC. I checked it with three other guns(all with good bores) and found the same thing you did, they load easier and shoot better. I always chalked it up to the TC's having a tighter bore.

As a side note. You may want to just shoot the snot out of that thing. My one gun had some pitting when I first got it. With a lot of shooting, diligent cleaning and lube it cleaned it's act up. By the time I sold it to get on the longrifle boat you would have never guessed there was anything wrong with the bore.
 

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Flintlock hunter... so this would be similar to guys putting rolled up pieces of hornets nest on top of the powder, then the patched ball? I've read of this before and it is supposed to keep the powder from burning the patch? Much easier that trying to find hornets nests too..!!
 

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Flintlock hunter... so this would be similar to guys putting rolled up pieces of hornets nest on top of the powder, then the patched ball? I've read of this before and it is supposed to keep the powder from burning the patch? Much easier that trying to find hornets nests too..!!
Yes Sir! That idea with the hornets nest was the original way Fadala penned it, but he added that the same result might be had with a second patch as well.:smile2:

Not only can a hornets nest be difficult for some to find, but I understand the winged critters get a mite testy if they're still living in it.:surprise2:
 

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As a side note. You may want to just shoot the snot out of that thing. My one gun had some pitting when I first got it. With a lot of shooting, diligent cleaning and lube it cleaned it's act up. By the time I sold it to get on the longrifle boat you would have never guessed there was anything wrong with the bore.
That's a great idea! I never really thought about trying to smooth out a bore like that other than using the first hundred or so break in shots to wear down the sharp lands on a new barrel. Could work out real well for Muddly's flinter.:smile2:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yup! Shooting does wonders sometimes. Polishing will only get you so far. Sometimes, its the dragon's breath that's needed.
Gotta say, I'm rather smitten with my Renegade. Bore issues noted, but I shoot her better than any flintlock I've ever owned.
Can't wait for December!
Got a lot of shooting to do in the mean time!
 

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Yup! Shooting does wonders sometimes. Polishing will only get you so far. Sometimes, its the dragon's breath that's needed.
Gotta say, I'm rather smitten with my Renegade. Bore issues noted, but I shoot her better than any flintlock I've ever owned.
Can't wait for December!
Got a lot of shooting to do in the mean time!

I know exactly what you mean! That muzzleloader I named "Mabel" is a Renegade, and the most forgiving one I ever owned. There was only one reason I would ever have considered parting with her, and that is to gift her to my son down in Tennessee.

My son has her now, and in addition to all the deer she took down up here in the north, she is doing a number down south in my son's capable hands.

Enjoy your Renegade Muddly!:smile2:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Well. Things are coming along very nicely! She's had 150 shots now and ramming is much smoother. Patches are rarely torn now and just kissing the powder is much easier.
I chrono'd the load ( 70 grains of 3f Swiss) and got 1745 fps with single digit variations. Not too shabby!
I swab between shots with a Bore Butter patch. Patch lube is also Bore Butter. It works very well for me.
Yesterday I managed to keep my 3 rounders at 50 yards between 1 1/2 & 1 3/4 inches. For me and a flintlock, this is very fine accuracy.
I'm very glad I took a chance with this Renegade. My fortune has been excellent this year. First my Firehawk, then the Renegade and finally a Euroarms 1863 Remington .58 that ,when I can get good .580 diameter minies, ought to cut holes at 50. Hat one will make a very fine hog/ bear rifle!
 

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You're getting really solid velocity and those groups sound great to me. Glad you are enjoying it. 150 rounds is a lot of time to learn the gun and train yourself. I'll assume that load has a very mild recoil. That coupled with the manageable size and weight of the weapon is going to make you one deadly flintlock hunter this year.
 

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Chuck Dixon recommends the following in his excellent text, "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle".".....microscopic burrs could be removed by firing some 500 shots through it (the barrel), or you can take the time to run a nickel's worth of fine steel wool (000 or 0000 grade) down the bore! this is done by first making wraps of one inch by twelve inches on your cleaning jag on the ramrod, and passing this through the bore. If it is properly wrapped it will be tight and won't pull off. If properly done, it should require some effort to push and pull. Work down to the breech plug and back to the muzzle, but keep the steel wool inside the barrel. Repeat this about a hundred times or until tired! (Usually about three songs on the radio!)"
C. Dixon, 1980, p. 46-47.

I've followed Chuck's recommendation with all my flintlocks, and found it very effective. Note: The steel wool wraps are not on top of each other, but instead spiraled up the ramrod from the jag, forming an 8 to 12 inch wrap. Give it a try.:thumbs:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks all, for the ideas and encouragement.
I'm loving this Renegade. Can't wait for December! Still have to work on consistency in technique.
One interesting thing is with the .490/.010 combo is I can start it with just thumb pressure. And its her best shooting load to date.
Live and learn!
 

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I'd say you are pretty much settled into the "dark side" of flintlocks at this point, and now it becomes a rapid plunge down the black powder rabbit hole.
You'll need a bigger gun rack!:smile_big:
 
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