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Discussion Starter #1
I went to the range today and fired my Springfield Armory Saint and found that I could not even keep the rounds on a piece of paper that was 4 feet square. The rifle has a 1 in 8 ROT and I was shooting 55 grain Federal ammo. Should I be shooting a heavier bullet?
 

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Its not the twist. Something else is wrong.

I shoot 55's in a 1 in 7 twist and they shoot good.
 

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How far was the target? What type of optic/sights? I experienced similar accuracy with my 270 deer rifle last year. After the day at the range I went home and starting cleaning it and found the scope mounts loosened slightly.
 

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i have a DPMS M-4 with a 16 inch barrel 1 in 9 twist and it handles 55 to 64 grain very well
 

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Jimsdad

Describe your set up.

Like Mad said I would start with the sighting system. Do you have a scope or are you using open sights? The Saint is a flattop right?

Are you off the paper because the groups are so big or because you never got it on paper? I'd start at 25 yards or closer if needed. The AR can also be easily bore sighted by removing the bolt and aligning the scope and bolt. Once you get on paper we can talk about group size and ammo.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Jimsdad

Describe your set up.

Like Mad said I would start with the sighting system. Do you have a scope or are you using open sights? The Saint is a flattop right?

Are you off the paper because the groups are so big or because you never got it on paper? I'd start at 25 yards or closer if needed. The AR can also be easily bore sighted by removing the bolt and aligning the scope and bolt. Once you get on paper we can talk about group size and ammo.
Going to go back to the range tomorrow with American Eagle ammo in 55 gr and also 62 grain starting at a shorter yardage. (the ammo I used with such rotten results is Federal 55 gr FMJ boat tails).

I am using the off the shelf Springfield Armory peep sights - smallest aperture. FWIW, I am a peep sight wizard; no brag- just fact.

The "group" is all over the map and out of 30 rounds, only 18 hit a 4 square foot cardboard at 100 yards.

None of the holes showed signs of keyholeing.

I was shooting from a bench and the rifle was fully supported.

The rifle is brand spanking new and before firing I cleaned it from butt plate to flash suppressor paying particular attention to the bore, chamber and entire bolt and receiver.

Shucks, I mean shoot...
:heart-borken:
 

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Certainly new rifles have some what of a break in period but this seems too extreme. I would be checking to ensure sights and pins and everything are not loose.
 

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Good luck tomorrow. I'm hoping you just had a bad batch of ammo but I've never seen one that bad.
 

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Yes, I would also be surprised to find it to be the ammo. If no signs of keyholing then twist rate and ammo were fine. Try a closer target and see how it does. If still having issues I would make sure everything is tightened down, especially on the optic side. Let us know how you make out.
 

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Yes, I would also be surprised to find it to be the ammo. If no signs of keyholing then twist rate and ammo were fine. Try a closer target and see how it does. If still having issues I would make sure everything is tightened down, especially on the optic side. Let us know how you make out.

Mad, he is using a peep. If the peep was that loose it would be falling off. :D

Jimsdad, does the Saint have a standard length flash hider? If it was an extended flash hider it could be an alignment issue. It happens on the M14 / M1A. I never heard of it happening on the AR but worth a look.

Again Good Luck!
 

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Mad, he is using a peep. If the peep was that loose it would be falling off. :D

Jimsdad, does the Saint have a standard length flash hider? If it was an extended flash hider it could be an alignment issue. It happens on the M14 / M1A. I never heard of it happening on the AR but worth a look.

Again Good Luck!
What if where it mounts to the rail was loose enough to move during a shot but not loose enough to swing off the rail?
 

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What if where it mounts to the rail was loose enough to move during a shot but not loose enough to swing off the rail?
The rails are usually part of the casting but if it was separate that could be the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Just got back from the range. BTW - thanks for all the suggestions. I know of no other place where I could have received more help and advise than from HPA. Sincere thanks to all.

Off the bench with a solid rest fired 40 rounds at 100 yards; 20 rounds of 55 gr American Eagle and 20 rounds of 62 gr American Eagle and the results were the same - outstanding accuracy. Other than both grouping low, I could not be more pleased.

I am tempted to revisit that Federal stuff with the thought that perhaps if I select a different sleeve of ammo from the can maybe the results will be different. But - if all of the ammo in the can is from the same lot then what good would that do? Anyhow, the rifle shoots very well with the two different bullet weights I mentioned before, I am not losing my mind, and I now need to lower the front sight to raise the point of impact (did not do this today as I was so pleased with the realization of not having just purchased a tomato stake that I just left things alone).

I have 390 rounds of this stuff left.
FYI
Federal Ammunition
5.56x54mm
55 Grain FMJ BALL
420 Rounds
Stripper Clips
XM193LC1 AC1
 

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That's great!!

If that ammo was sold commercially I would call the seller and return it.
 

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Just got back from the range. BTW - thanks for all the suggestions. I know of no other place where I could have received more help and advise than from HPA. Sincere thanks to all.

Off the bench with a solid rest fired 40 rounds at 100 yards; 20 rounds of 55 gr American Eagle and 20 rounds of 62 gr American Eagle and the results were the same - outstanding accuracy. Other than both grouping low, I could not be more pleased.

I am tempted to revisit that Federal stuff with the thought that perhaps if I select a different sleeve of ammo from the can maybe the results will be different. But - if all of the ammo in the can is from the same lot then what good would that do? Anyhow, the rifle shoots very well with the two different bullet weights I mentioned before, I am not losing my mind, and I now need to lower the front sight to raise the point of impact (did not do this today as I was so pleased with the realization of not having just purchased a tomato stake that I just left things alone).

I have 390 rounds of this stuff left.
FYI
Federal Ammunition
5.56x54mm
55 Grain FMJ BALL
420 Rounds
Stripper Clips
XM193LC1 AC1
This is your problem!!! It's supposed to be 5.56x45mm. Just kidding i'm sure that's a typo.

I would try it again and if it's still all over the place I would call federal and see if they can do anything for you. They may have even had a recall or something you don't know about. Federal makes American Eagle so I'm suspecting that there is something wrong with that ammo.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
This is your problem!!! It's supposed to be 5.56x45mm. Just kidding i'm sure that's a typo.

I would try it again and if it's still all over the place I would call federal and see if they can do anything for you. They may have even had a recall or something you don't know about. Federal makes American Eagle so I'm suspecting that there is something wrong with that ammo.
My Dyslexia strikes again!

Next thing will be me stopping for green lights and going though red ones........... Jeesch!

:)
 

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My Dyslexia strikes again!

Next thing will be me stopping for green lights and going though red ones........... Jeesch!

:)

The green ones won't be a problem but those red ones could hurt. :)
 
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