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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What would your preference be? 4570 or 450 Marlin. I do reload so the 4570 would not be a problem...I could go beyond 4570 factory ammo accuracy.

Is there any benfit for let say having a Marlin Lever action in a 450 Marlin instead of a Marlin Lever in the 4570?
 

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I think the mfrs. have went off the deep end. They want to get their name on everything they can. If their is a marked improvement then that is OK. But in the case of the 450 Marlin there is no real improvement. It is my opinion that vanity is at play.
 

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I have a guide gun in 45/70. My buddy has one in .450. There is no difference in recoil (they both kick) or report (they're both loud). There really isn't that much difference ballistically either. I think you'll find way more bullet choices for the 45/70 over the .450. The cool thing about the 45/70 is the history behind the cartridge. When people see the bore of my marlin and inquire as to its caliber, I respond. "Its a 45/70. You know, what they used to shoot buffalo and indians with."
 

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I shot a 875 pound (dressed) bull moose with the 450 Marlin and all I ever shot with the 45-70 was a 60 pound fawn doe so I'm more sentimental about the .450.
 

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When people see the bore of my marlin and inquire as to its caliber, I respond. "Its a 45/70. You know, what they used to shoot buffalo and indians with."
It's true....I've witnessed this first hand!


I'll go with the 450 simply because I don't like something about that 45-70 cartridge. I think it's the gigantic rim. I'm not quite sure though....it just does nothing for me at all!
 

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45-70 all the way.

The 450 is just a loaded "correctly" 45-70 from a factory. If you handload your choice of power levels and versitility is much greater with the 45-70.

A round that has been around 137 years, was a military round, and has as many personalities as it does is good in my book.

Load a Sharps to blackpowder level, load a Marlin lever gun to level #2, and load a Ruger #1 to a 458 Win Mag level. There is nothing on the planet that could stand a properly loaded 45-70. Many "gun" writers even comment that they would brain an elephant with a 45-70 and proper bullets.
 

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Andy1 said:
45-70 all the way.

The 450 is just a loaded "correctly" 45-70 from a factory. If you handload your choice of power levels and versitility is much greater with the 45-70.

A round that has been around 137 years, was a military round, and has as many personalities as it does is good in my book.

Load a Sharps to blackpowder level, load a Marlin lever gun to level #2, and load a Ruger #1 to a 458 Win Mag level. There is nothing on the planet that could stand a properly loaded 45-70. Many "gun" writers even comment that they would brain an elephant with a 45-70 and proper bullets.


A 500 grain bullet at 2,000 fps? Never gonna happen.
 

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I have several 45-10 rifles and have loaded that cartridge for 30 yrs. You can load it up for huge game, load it moderate for big game and even load it down for small game and gallery practice. Shells are cheap and there must be 50 different molds available for those who roll their own. I have molds for 45-70 that go from 210 grains all the way up to 500 grains. Form a handloader standpoint it is probably one of the most versatile large cartridges out there. History of being one of the longest lived work horses in the history of firearms. Adopted by the US Army and issued in 1873.
 

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If you handload I'd go with the 45-70, if you don't I'd go with the 450. There is quite a differance between the two with factory ammo. Since you load, 45-70 brass will be cheaper and easier to get and you can load to higher pressure than the factory ammo in your Marlin.
 

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Big Ken said:
A Ruger #1 CAN be loaded to higher levels than a Marlin...I had one, but the recoil would practically kill you.

I had an H&R 45-70 with the straight grip laminate stock. I had it open sighted and doubt it weighed an ounce over 6 pounds. I used Hornady Leverevolutions in it and the recoil off the bench was fierce. If you would have offered me one of these 400 grain handloads I'd have declined to shoot it. The only good thing was it had a thick recoil pad.
 

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A friend of mine during high school hunted with an old marlin 45-70 his grandfather gave him. All he ever used out it was Remington 405 gr SP's. He shot everything from groundhogs to deer with that thing. It worked just fine for his use. No need for anymore power than that.

While you can get a 45-70 to near 450 perfermance, you can't go back the other way onless you roll your own.

I've wanted a guide gun for years. I wouldn't even think about the 450. If I really needed that much power all the time I would probably be in africa
 

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Try shooting 40 sillouette loads in a match, with a straight stocked low drop trapdoor if ya want slapped around.

I got a deal on some federal 45-70 factory ammo that I shoot in my H&R Shikari and the recoil is mild. (H&R named that model of 45-70 the Shikari, which I found out is an native big game hunting guide in India.)

In the Hepburn, 45-70 loads are also mild, even the stiff loaded 500 grain cartridges, but then again a Hepburn has about the most drop of any gun ever made. In 45-70, I have a 1873 Trapdoor, an 1884 Trapdoor, a Hepburn, an H&R Shikari and a Winchester Hiwall. I also shoot 45-70's out of my Martini-Henry that is chambered for 45-90
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
All the info on how they kick are already starting to get me to flinch...I have a 4570 Encore barrel that I have never even shot yet...Ah maybe this year I will give it a try...Who knows I might give black bear a try this year and will use that Encore 4570 barrel on that particular hunt?
 

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Do not concern yourself with the recoil of a 45-70 if you reload. Just push a 405 grain bullet between 1400-1600 fps. No need to push this bullet any faster for the game we hunt. I load 40.0 grains of RL7 in my different 45-70's. This yields approx. 1600 fps in most of my rifles. This is not a "kicking" load. However I would drop it down to 1400 or even 1300 fps in a heartbeat, and the effectiveness on deer would not be a dimes bit different. Just remember a 45-70 bullet is .458 in diameter out of the barrel. That is more than alot of bullets will expand up to. You basically have a 1/2" hole without any expansion. And with minimum expansion you have .75" hole. That is a monster hole in game, and at even 1300 fps this bullet will bust right though any bone a deer or bear has.

When shooting the 45-70 you have to think the opposite of what the 243 hunter thinks. The 243 hunter depends on velocity. Where the 45-70 depends on bullet weight, mass, and diameter of bullet. It really doesn't matter if that 45-70 bullet is traveling at 1300 fps or 2,000 fps. It is still going to blow straight through a deer, and with a very big hole.

Load your Encore up to about 1400 fps to start with, and enjoy shooting your rifle. If you feel you need more power later on then go for it. But it really is not necessary for 100 or 200 yard shots at the animals we hunt here in PA and WV. Tom.
 
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