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Discussion Starter #1
So i worked a load up for my 3030 using 3031.
I'm shooting 150gr Nosler silver tips. the most accurate load that I found was 29.2 gr of 3031.
2 questions:
1. What velocity am I getting?
2. What should I sight in at 50 Yds so that I can be dead on or good at 100yds?

I have a 4x scope on it, so zeroing at 100yds is difficult to say the least.
 

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nothing difficult about zeroing at 100 yards with a 4x scope. A 2 1/2 power is sufficient for 100 yards.
 

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You're likely around 2200 fps.

1/2 high at 50 should be close at 100.

I agree though, sight in at 100. It shouldn't be that difficult if you use an adequately sized target. A three inch spot should be about right to quarter with the reticle.

These are just a couple targets I've shot at 200 yds with a 4x scope:





I like more magnification for shooting targets at 200 yards but 4x is enough. 100 yds should be fine. If you have a heavier reticle, you may need a bigger dot. I had a fixed 6x that I had to use 3" dots at 100 because of the heavy duplex.
 

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The crosshairs at 4 power more than likely cover you entire dot at 200 yards, pretty hard to target shoot for groups with a 4 power scope at 200 yards. It'll be fine in the woods where shots are usually way under 100 yards most of the time. I'd pick something different to hunt fields, powerines, strip cuts etc...
 

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Between 2100 & 2200,can't say for sure ?
50 yard sight in is good,say at 1/2 or 3/4 inch high. Even and inch will work.
Unless you have a spotting scope shooting at 100 will put on a lot of walking to see the hits !
You will do just fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
ah, didn't think to use bigger target sticker.../sigh...

just ordered some off amazon, will zero at 100.

thanks,
Z
 

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I see no reason to sight in a PA deer rifle in at 100 yards. Especially that kind of a caliber. If you know your shots are going to be most likely less than a hundred yards, zero at 50, heck zero at 25 and see where it's at at 100.

Our typical shots range from 25 yards to 60 or so. I will zero varmint guns at 100 or farther, not deer guns.

Dads been zeroed at 25 yards with his 30-06 for years and years.
 

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There is a lot more to PA deer hunting than 25-60 yard shots for many of us. Most of my rifles are sighted in with a 200 to 250 yard zero. That puts me in the kill zone out to 250 to 300 yards without any hold over or dialing. I don't really give up anything by doing this. My bullet hits a couple inches high mid range. That's nothing on a deer.

A 25 yard zero vs. a 50 yard zero can make a difference of well of 6" in POI at 250 yds. The 25 zero is better for most rifles in terms of lengthening MPBR. There's still no reason not to confirm the more distant zero (which will be around 250 yds for a 30-06 class cartridge and 150 yards for a 30-30). Backwards extrapolation from a longer range confirmed POI is far more accurate than the reverse.
 

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Not for us. My furthest shot on a Whitetail in PA is 83 yards. Dad has been hunting for 45+ years and hadn't shot a deer over 100 yards. We just can't see that far. I usually can't see past 100 yards let alone shoot so there is no chance at a shot farther than that. We have no reason to sight in further than we do. Most of the deer we get with rifles are with in Bow range.

Dad used to sight in at 100 yards, until his uncle who was an Army Ranger scout sniper in Vietnam told him not to. There wasn't any need and still isn't. He was instructed to zero his service rifle, a 1903 Springfield 30-06 at 25 yards. With a 25 yard zero, the bullet will be less than an inch off at 100. 200 it would drop 5-6 inches. So you might have to hold a tad high at 200. People should zero at what ranges they anticipate on shooting at.
 

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People should know the trajectory and POI of their bullets at any range they are willing to shot at game. If you know you will never take a shot at over 100 yards you will likely be fine zeroing at 25 or 50 or any distance between 25 and 100 yds. If you do a little research and spend a little time at the range, you can prepare both your rifle and yourself to make shots at somewhat longer ranges without giving up anything at close range. I figure I might as well be as prepared as possible.

I think there's some confusion about zeroing and sighting in. As I mentioned, the 25 yard zero often gives a pretty decent MPBR but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't shoot and confirm/adjust at longer ranges. For something like a 30-06 I could have a 25 yard near zero which will again be zeroed somewhere just shy of 250 yards. I'll likely never sight the rifle in at either of those ranges, though. Shooting at 100 and 200 yards allows me to confirm a trajectory. If I sight in so that I'm 2.5" high at 200 yards and can confirm that I'm around 2.75" high at 100 yards, then my 30-06 will be zeroed at 25 and 250 yds. If I then shoot at 300 it gives me an even better data point to confirm trajectory.

I'm not familiar with the 30-06 ammo used by the Rangers in Vietnam but it would take a very low sight height with something like M2 Ball to be much more than 3" low at 200 yards when using a 25 yard zero. Once you put a scope on, you will be high at 200 with the same 25 yard zero.
 

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Sounds like a lot of wasted time and ammo to me. I guess that if you plan on taking shots at deer at 300 yards it might be worth it. That's not our style of hunting. Nor do I think it is for 95% of hunters in PA.

We don't need to worry about 200 yard or farther shots. So there is zero need to waste ammo to see where it is. If you are heading out west for elk or mule deer, sure you better know where it's at out to 500yards. Or even Ontario or Saskatchewan for whitetail. You might get a 200-300 yard shot acrossed a power line or clear cut.

I spend plenty of time at the range. I frequently shoot in ground hog matches at local clubs as well as high power silo shoots. These targets are out to 500 yards. So it's not like I don't know what I'm doing when it comes to long range shooting. Deer hunting isn't long range shooting to me. I've never missed a deer or have had any other ill effect from being zeroed at 25 or 50 yards, so I will continue to do so.
 

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I haven't found any of my time at the range to be wasted, nor the ammo. To each his own. To state that there is no point in sighting at 100 yds or further for a PA deer rifle is just pure nonsense. Granted, not every PA deer rifle needs to be sighted in at those ranges but there are plenty that do. I just don't see the downside of knowing where your bullets hit beyond bow range. For the sake of a box of ammo, it is an inexpensive proposition. Can we ever have too much trigger time?
 

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I think the hoards of 30-30, .35 Remington, .32 Special, and similar cartridge users would disagree. I don't think that it's an exaggeration to say that 50% or even over, of deer taken with rifles in PA would be with one of those 3 cartridges. I hope than nobody's shooting much past 100 yards with any of those, being most would be lever guns. With or with out scopes.

I never said I didn't know where they hit at 100. I do. I guess if you just want to see where it's at further there's no harm. I just don't need to. I know that I'm not pulling the trigger at anything past 100, probably more like 75. I'll shoot at 25, 50, and 100. I'd rather take a few more shots at those ranges than at a range that I know I'm not going to shoot.

I would say that you can have too much trigger time with certain guns. Shoot a box of 225's out of my 7600 .35 Whelen and you will wish you hadn't. It's not a range gun, it's a hunting gun. It's not the most fun gun to shoot, but it's a fun gun to hunt with. It hits deer like a sledge hammer, and the shooter about the same. I'm 6'2" 270 and more than a handful of shots, I start to feel it.
 

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I don't feel like we're getting anywhere here but I need to respond to a couple things. First, 30-30 class cartridges are solid 150 yard performers and 200 yards really isn't pushing things too far.

Second, if you know your trajectory you are often better served by shooting at distances farther than the distances at which to hunt. I don't shoot at deer past 30 yds with a bow but I often practice out to 60 yards. Extending the range shows mistakes you are making that can be hidden a closer ranges. The same thing goes for rifle shooting. It's often more difficult to find extended rifle ranges to shoot at but if you have the ranges available I see no reason not to stretch things out past what you would hunt. It helps.

Third, conveniently, I have a 35 Whelen and I shoot 225's out of it. I've shot a box or more on several occasions. Mine's a Ruger 1A and weighs in at 7lbs 10 oz including the scope. That's probably about the same as an unscoped 7600. It kicks. There's no doubt about it but its manageable. I use the same methods of sighting in for that rifle as the rest. Just because hit hits back a little more doesn't mean I'm going to sight it in to its potential. Nothing I suggested actually requires shooting a whole box during any single range session. Two or three 3 shot groups per session over a few sessions will plenty to get your dope figured out to a few hundred yards.

The bottom line is that not everyone needs to know their POI's past 50-75 yards but there are a lot of PA deer hunters that do.
 

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As to targets and aim points with thick cross hair scopes, try this. Draw a black right triangle on a white sheet of paper. A 4 inch side vertical, the 3 inch side horizontal to the right, and the 5 inch side from top to rt bottom.

Your aim point is the 90deg angle, the triangle will be in the upper right part of your scope. Hitting the center of a circle means squat, as long as you know where the POI is in reference to the POA. I like the same target with my 1.75-7 Ger #1 reticle.
 

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I think the hoards of 30-30, .35 Remington, .32 Special, and similar cartridge users would disagree. I don't think that it's an exaggeration to say that 50% or even over, of deer taken with rifles in PA would be with one of those 3 cartridges. I hope than nobody's shooting much past 100 yards with any of those, being most would be lever guns. With or with out scopes.

I never said I didn't know where they hit at 100. I do. I guess if you just want to see where it's at further there's no harm. I just don't need to. I know that I'm not pulling the trigger at anything past 100, probably more like 75. I'll shoot at 25, 50, and 100. I'd rather take a few more shots at those ranges than at a range that I know I'm not going to shoot.

I would say that you can have too much trigger time with certain guns. Shoot a box of 225's out of my 7600 .35 Whelen and you will wish you hadn't. It's not a range gun, it's a hunting gun. It's not the most fun gun to shoot, but it's a fun gun to hunt with. It hits deer like a sledge hammer, and the shooter about the same. I'm 6'2" 270 and more than a handful of shots, I start to feel it.

If you can't take a .30-30, .32, or .35 Rem past 100 yards then that is your fault! It's not hard to double that.
 

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Not for us. My furthest shot on a Whitetail in PA is 83 yards. Dad has been hunting for 45+ years and hadn't shot a deer over 100 yards. We just can't see that far. I usually can't see past 100 yards let alone shoot so there is no chance at a shot farther than that. We have no reason to sight in further than we do. Most of the deer we get with rifles are with in Bow range.

Dad used to sight in at 100 yards, until his uncle who was an Army Ranger scout sniper in Vietnam told him not to. There wasn't any need and still isn't. He was instructed to zero his service rifle, a 1903 Springfield 30-06 at 25 yards. With a 25 yard zero, the bullet will be less than an inch off at 100. 200 it would drop 5-6 inches. So you might have to hold a tad high at 200. People should zero at what ranges they anticipate on shooting at.
No. If your scope is mounted 1 1/2" above your bore and you sight your .30-06 in at 25 yards you will be 3" high at 100 yards and 4 1/2" high at 125-135 yards. If your crosshairs are higher than 1 1/2" above the bore you will be shooting even higher. If you want to be 1 1/2" high at 100 then you need to sight in dead on at 50.
 

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By Nosler Load data at 29 you should be getting 2120, so 29.2... meh, 2150-ish.
I sight my Marlin 30-30-30 (30 year old 30-30) in at 50 yards and according to Strelok ballistic app you should be shooting -.55 low at 100 yards.
If you can discern a half inch with a 4x scope at 100 yards, you're a better marksman than I.
A deer heart is 6 to 8 inches...I'd zero at 50 and be done with it.
 

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If you can't take a .30-30, .32, or .35 Rem past 100 yards then that is your fault! It's not hard to double that.
I don't recall saying that it couldn't be done. Is it a good idea, probably not. Go to any range the next couple of days and check out peoples targets. They are happy if they can hit a pie plate at 100 yards, and they are too lazy to walk to 200. Unless it is under perfect conditions, I don't think a 200 yard shot in the woods at game is very feasible or ethical. That's not the kind of shooting the cartridges are designed for, and the types of guns chambered for those cartridges would represent that. Its not hard to accurately shoot a .22 LR at 200 yards, doesn't mean you should shoot game with it.
 
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