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Discussion Starter #1
so i finaly got my rifle all put together its a rem 700 sps tac 1in9 twist with a yhm suppresor and wanted to reload some subsonic rounds for it i know you can buy them but im not paying 70 bucks for a box of 20 so i wanted to try and work up a load i might not be able to get true subsonic out of it but i do want to quiet it down a little but still be able to knock down fur at 200yds just wondering if anybody has any reloads or info
 

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Some info on loading SS rounds.

http://www.ramshot.com/faq/

Introduction:
The practice of down loading rifle calibers to subsonic velocity levels must be approached in a special way.

THE FUNDAMENTALS ARE:

At subsonic velocities the chamber pressure is extremely low in most rifle calibers.
This means the combustion efficiency is not good.
It means that case obturation is bad.
Therefore faster more efficient burning powders are required.
This leads to low loading densities, which might cause ignition problems.
Because the requirement is to have subsonic velocities while maintaining the best possible combustion efficiency, the velocity should be kept as close as possible to the sonic threshold for the specific conditions, preferably between 1025 Fps to 1100 Fps.
Projectiles with sharp pointed ogive’s do not make good subsonic projectiles because
External and Terminal ballistics at subsonic velocities does not exploit the design features of high BC jacketed SP or HP-BT bullets. Therefore, it is actually a waste /moot point shooting with these designs at subsonic velocities.
Subsonic loads using standard components will not cycle high power, semi auto rifles.
Warning: — Since fast burning powders are used, it results in very low loading densities; Therefore the possibility of double charging is very high!! —— Please take extra precautions to prevent this from occurring.

WHAT TO DO?

Use only powders with good ignition characteristics.
Use any well-known Cast Bullet Publication, such as Lyman®, Speer® etc as a guide with the above equivalent powders. Begin at the recommended minimum/Start loads and incrementally load lower towards the subsonic range, of between 1025 and 1100 Fps.
In most cases extremely fast burning Handgun/Shotgun powders are the better options. However, there are exceptions involving slower burning powders with excellent ignition characteristics such as our Accurate 5744®
To ensure the best highest possible loading density, select the bulkiest powder with the lowest bulk density (weight/Volume).
Extruded flake, or -tubular or -multi perforated powders, are usually the recommended types, however there are some exceptions utilizing special spherical/Ball® powders.
Neck-sizing the cases to ensure proper obturation
Adding Fillers to keep the powder on the primer side of the case (Dacron® or Pufflon® – see below).
The loading is done inversely to the standard practice with normal loads and is best executed by loading from a higher Velocity usually in the 1300-1400 fps range towards the lower level.
Confirm statistically, with proper number of rounds per iteration (min 10 rounds) by measuring the velocity with a chronograph and verify standard deviations and extreme spreads to make absolutely sure that no supersonic “flyers” occur.
Make sure that projectile has left the barrel when a blackened/sooted case is extracted.
Also be aware when extremely low velocities are recorded < 900 Fps. This is indicative of extremely low pressures which, is an early warning sign that bad ignition "squib" loads = stuck bullet maybe eminent.
Use projectiles with the shortest ogive possible, preferably Round nose projectiles. This will ensure better stability due to a more centered COM (center of mass)
Use the heavier projectiles for a particular calibre. The higher inertia ensures better ignition and combustion.

The USE of FILLERS:

Whenever inconsistent velocities are detected, it is recommended that a proper filler material be used to keep the powder at the primer end of the case.
The following filler materials are recommended:
PUFFLON®, which is a dedicated speciality filler product. www.pufflon.com
DACRON®. This product comes in various forms, and the “fluffy” version must be used. This must be lightly stuffed and not tightly compressed; the purpose is to merely keep the powder at the bottom of the case against the primer.

Powders recommended for subsonic loading from our own product lines:

ACCURATE® POWDERS:

Accurate SOLO 1000®, Single base Extruded Flake
Accurate Nitro100® New Formulation. Double base Spherical/Ball®
Accurate no2®, Double base Spherical/Ball®.
*Accurate A-5744®, Double base extruded tubular.

*Caution: This powder will leave some un-burnt powder granules behind, which can cause irritation when “flush-back” occurs into chambers and mechanisms of guns.

RAMSHOT® POWDERS:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
thanks guys currently i have just been running factory 55gr remmington out of it and is quit a bit quieter about a lowd pellet gun but whats the use of having a silenser and shooting supersonic rounds i might not hunt with the subsonics ill hav e to see how they shoot
 

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It might seem strange but reduced loads CAN lead to high pressure situations. I tried reduced loads in my .243. Used a small charge of fast burning powder held against the primer with a tuft of kapok and a 90 grain bullet. Ended up setting the bolt back so that I was getting misfires. Had to have the bolt replaced.
The only way I'd try loading down that far now would be if I could find a load usind VERY bulky powder like Trail boss.
 

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Hodgdon has data for 223 using Trail Boss that gets you in the subsonic velocity range. I have used Trail Boss in a 222 with good results, I was loading for higher velocity then 1100fps though.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

IMO getting 200 yards with a starting velocity around 1100fps is pushing it.

Good luck, Tony
 

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Discussion Starter #8
wildbill thats a great read ill have to print that out and keep it with me but my wife is gunna be upset when i tell her i need to buy a chronograph haha
 

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Tony300wby said:
Hodgdon has data for 223 using Trail Boss that gets you in the subsonic velocity range. I have used Trail Boss in a 222 with good results, I was loading for higher velocity then 1100fps though.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

IMO getting 200 yards with a starting velocity around 1100fps is pushing it.

Good luck, Tony
I agree with Tony.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
tony300 and basdjs thats is were i am stuck i would like to hunt with them but something thats bairley breaking 1000fps is stretching it at 200yds id like to find an in between load it might not be subsonic but something a litle quieter then factory guess there will be allot of time spent at the reloading bench and at the range soon
 

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19Delta said:
but my wife is gunna be upset when i tell her i need to buy a chronograph haha
Ah, just tell her not only will it measure bullets velocities but also show the deals of the day on QVC. You'll be home free!
 

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19Delta said:
tony300 and basdjs thats is were i am stuck i would like to hunt with them but something thats bairley breaking 1000fps is stretching it at 200yds id like to find an in between load it might not be subsonic but something a litle quieter then factory guess there will be allot of time spent at the reloading bench and at the range soon
I dont know what you consider acceptable as far as trajectory out to 200yds? For me I would want somthing shooting a minimum of 2500fps. That would give around a 6" drop at 200, dependant on bullet BC and weight. Obviously it wouldnt be as quiet as 1100fps. I have a reduced load for a .222 that I use for squirrel's, its a 40gr bullet at 1900fps. That load doesnt have the loud crack that it does when Im shooting the same bullet at 3300fps, but even at 1900fps it still is loud.

Good luck, Tony
 

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Going to 200 would be the hard part. I doubt you'll find a subsonic load that will carry to 200. And if you start it fast enough to get out to 200 and it transitions to subsonic along the way, you may very well have accuracy issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
thats what im thinking r2d2 im gunna have to compromise do i want longer range accuracy or a a super quiet rifle i mean i cant complain now of what it brings factory ammo down to because its pretty impressive cuz without it its a real ear ringer with only a 20 inch barrel
 

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I think you'll get what you want if you download the .223 to .22 Hornet velocities. Do a Google search for that combination and I think you'll find some powder and load recommendations. But I also think your effective range is more like 150 yds.
 

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Looked it up and Hodgdon recommends 4grs of Trail.Boss and a 55gr bullet. Produces 1074fps. Never make it to 200 hundred but basically it'll turn your .223 into a something close to a 22long rifle. Actually it sounds like a fun project. I may get.a jug of Trail Boss and give it a try.
 

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R2D2 said:
I may get.a jug of Trail Boss and give it a try.
I've been making "Go Poof" loads for the 243, 7-08 and 45-70 using donuts (Trail Boss
) I never clocked them, but I think they're kinda slow. With the 45-70 you hear the rifle report then a smacks when the 300 hits the paper.


Surprisingly ,the loads are or can be quite accurate.

Bill
 

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Picked up a jug today and loaded 10 up. What a hoot! Basically they turn my AR into a straight pull bolt gun. Shoots very much like a 22. Not real dirty either. Have to try them for accuracy later in the week.
 

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A bunch of good cautionary info above. I'll add this. With reduced loads you won't have high pressure, reduced load situations till you have them....and then they can be catastrophic. Just google around the net for blown up guns on reduced loads. Guys loading them for years, and no problem......then BOOM!

My advise is to stick to published data from the manuals, period. They know what they're doing, and have pressure tested it repeatedly to prove it. The rest of us are guessing at physics.

James Calhouns (innovator that he is aside) loads with Blue Dot are popular, but so far as I know,no one with pressure testing equipment has ever run them for actual numbers. It is very possible to double load a case with Blue Dot and has been done, and has blown guns up. So far as I know, neither IMR nor Alliant/Hercules ever published data for reduced load with 700X, 800X, Unique, Red Dot, Green Dot, Blue Dot, 2400 or any of the other million shotgun/pistol powders out there that guys have used for reduced loads for decades. Take that for what it's worth.

Hodgdon has several options under their roof, as they own Hodgdon, IMR and Winchester powder names now. Trail Boss will get you up to the 2000 fps or range in 223, and maybe down around 1000 fps, and you cant overload a bottlenecked cartridge with it - can't get enuf into a case to do so - it's that bulky. http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

SR4759 will do the same thing basically. It was THE powder for reduced loads years ago, and no reason it wont work now, although since Hodgdon bought IMR, they have not published SR 4759 data for reduced loads, in favor of Trail Boss loads. Not sure why, but if you want published SR 4759 load data, find an old Speer manual. Richard Lee's Modern Reloading Manual has a bunch for several powders and a bunch of calibers too. I have both books, but haven't seen my Lee book lately.

H4895 will get you from about 1800 fps w/ a 40 gr bullet up to around 3600 fps with a 24" bbl. http://hodgdon.com/
https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Hodgdon%20H4895%20reduced%20rifle%20load.pdf

I have been researching this heavily myself lately and will be working some loads up for my 222/12 combo gun for varmints, predators, turkeys, and small game.

Good luck and be safe.
 
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