The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
469 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
WHy do I shoot moa groups at 100 yards and tthen at 200 those same loads fall apart?

Yesterday I was shooting hornady 150 grain BTSP over 60 gr of H4350. I shot a 1" group at 100 yards. The next three shots at 200 was 6" at best.

My rest is solid, my gun is glass bedded and barrel free floated.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
26,979 Posts
I could be you. Every small movement is multiplied the further away the target is. Maybe you can borrow a lead sled and get her real steady and see what it does then.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,264 Posts
What John H said. 200yds. shoot small dot,small target small group. Don't know what power scope you use but I shoot at a 1/2" dot at 200 and if I go bigger so dose group. Good Luck...later
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,815 Posts
If you are shooting a3-9x scope cranked up to 9x when shooting 100 yards. Remember tht will be like shooting a 4.5x when you go further.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
889 Posts
Alot of shooters think. "well if my rifle shoots an inch at 100 yards then it should shoot 2 inches at 200 yards". When nothing could be farther from the truth.

Shooting at 100 yards is only a good test of accuracy for a rifle that will be shot at 100 yards or less in the woods.

When I test loads for my varmint rifle I am concerned about the 300 yard groups. The 100 yard groups are totally irrelevant.

Now when shootnig longer range that is when you separate the wheat from the chaff.

When shooting longer distance it takes the skill of the shooter, as well as the quality of the equipment. If both aren't up to par then long distance accuracy will suffer greatly.

It could be a dozen reasons. Basically an inaccurate rifle, bad shooting, poor stock design, poor load performance..................and on and on.

Start with your shooting. Do you know anyone with a rifle that you personally know will shoot 2" groups at 300 yards?? If so then spend some time behind that rifle. What groups do you shoot from that rifle??

There is no replacement for practice and quality equipment.

Personally I do not believe the power of the scope is very important. I have shot 3X9's to 400 and 500 yards for years. No problem with the power, just as long as the scope qualtiy is there.

Basically you asked a question that can not be answered on the internet. It has to be done at the range. And with many shots fired down range. Practice is the only rememdy, along with better equipment.

My first suggestion would be about your trigger, and trigger control. Tom.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
469 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Thanks to all for the responses, I want to try to respond to the many suggestions a begin to rule things out and figure this out.

I have a lead sled type rest that I use to ensure a rock solid rest.

I check all of the screws in action and scope before I begin to shoot.

My scope is a 2.5x10 bushnell 4200.

The targets that I am shooting at are usally a 1" center dot. I may try a 1/2" dot.

I also have a 6mm Rem that I developed a handload for that is consistently shooting 1" groups at 200 yards.

My gun is a ruger m77 30-06 that I am trying to get 200yard groups out on. I am hoping to take it to Wyoming in the fall with me for antelope and mule deer. It has a crisper trigger than my 6mm.

I was absolutely figuring that since I shoot 1" groups at 100 that 2" groups should be expected. I was hoping it was something to do with my hand loads or the rate of twist of my barrel with the grain bullet I am using. I guess I'll be practicing every weekend between now and October.

Again thants for all of the suggestions!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
715 Posts
Develop the load for the distance. In most cases, not all, if you develop a load for 200 yards it will shoot good at a hundred, many times a load at a 100 will not shoot well at extended distances. I'm not saying a 100 yard load won't work at extended distance all the time, it has just worked in the past for me to make the load work for a longer distance and then see what it does at close range. Some guns just won't shoot well when you stretch them out there. Try different bullets, seating depths, powder charges and sometimes primers will make a tremendous difference in group size. Of course this is all tried after the basics to long range shooting have been applied.

How many rounds are through the barrel and how clean is it, copper fouling will cause you more problems than you might think. Get a good copper solvent and clean, clean and clean some more. Shoot from a good solid rest, I’m not a fan of the lead sled, a heavy rear bag and a good front Bench rest will serve you well. Take some surveyors tape to the range with you, staple a 2’ piece to the bottom of as many backers as the range has and watch them when you shoot, make sure they are in the same position for each shot. That will also help a lot.

I like to do load development at 200 yards, sometimes 300 but there are a lot more variables to consider at 300+ yards. If the right day comes around with limited wind I will always try 300. Guns are funny things, I have factory rifles that will shoot 5 shots well under ½” at a 100, stretch them out to 500 and 4 ½ groups is all they’ll do. I have customs that will shoot ¼” at 100 and shoot around 1 ½” at 500. Mathematically that just doesn’t make sense. If you look at manufactures that guarantee sub MOA they never state sub MOA over 100 yards.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,577 Posts
Bullet stabilization comes into play at various distances also. Sometimes a load/bullet combo will actually shoot tighter (in terms of MOA) at longer ranges then at 100 yds.

Muab
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
889 Posts
IMO Lead Sled's are detrimental to accuracy in a rifle. They do not allow the rifle to recoil naturally. Way too many problems associated with lead sleds for me to ever use one.

Can you tell I don't like lead sleds??

I have seen rifles shoot more consistently once you get the rifle out of that contraption. Tom.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,393 Posts
Muab Dib said:
Bullet stabilization comes into play at various distances also. Sometimes a load/bullet combo will actually shoot tighter (in terms of MOA) at longer ranges then at 100 yds.

Muab
My 223 shoots tighter at 200-250 than it does at 100. The bullet "goes to rest" is the theory. Your twist, bullet design and velocity determine what distance your bullet will spin and fly true. Most will fly true within a few yards and you never see the group shrink and grow.

The oposite end of the spectrum is the "key hole" where the bullet never stablizes and it just tumbles out of control.

IMO try another bullet powder combo, stick with a boat tail but maybe try an alternate tip/brand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,393 Posts
HOGGHEAD said:
IMO Lead Sled's are detrimental to accuracy in a rifle. They do not allow the rifle to recoil naturally. Way too many problems associated with lead sleds for me to ever use one.

Can you tell I don't like lead sleds??

I have seen rifles shoot more consistently once you get the rifle out of that contraption. Tom.
Lead sleds are acceptable IMO (don't own one) for initial zero of the scope on a thumper of a gun.

If you are not going to shoot the lead sled in the field, why practice shooting from one?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
638 Posts
i'd look at ur extreme spread. try to keep it no more than 30-35fps
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
995 Posts
if your shooting a lead tipped bullet a slight deformation of the tip can ruin the ballistic coefficient and cause vertical stringing.

what bullet weight are you shooting?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,100 Posts
I have found with the Rugers, if you over tighten the center screw in the action accuracy goes south quickly at longer ranges. Tighten the front & back to specks(if you torque them) & just snug the center one.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top