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Saturday Opener

26K views 441 replies 76 participants last post by  JJ4D 
#1 ·
#267 · (Edited)
They could create opportunity in so many other ways than to just move the opener. Extend the season several days at the end. Make the whole two weeks concurrent again. Let the season got out for a week, and then bring it back in on a Saturday where buck and doe could be harvested-which creates even more opportunity than a buck only day.

All would create opportunity for rifle hunters and the extra Saturday would address and extra day for college students.

The Saturday at the end would also not REMOVE opportunity from small game and turkey hunters as well, like moving the opener does.
 
#270 ·
I usually read too fast when my 6 year old is having a sidebar conversation with me when I'm on here....

Going to two week concurrent was not an unknown. They KNEW that more does would be harvest because of more time and better windows of good weather, snow cover, etc.
We will just have to disagree that it was a bigger unknown than the Saturday opener.
 
#272 ·
Another point that I haven't seen addressed in all of this....
Where is it written that deer hunting is more important than small game and turkey hunting?

Back when the PGC implemented the 3 day extended fall turkey season at Thanksgiving, one of the biggest reasons was because people home from college and home for the holiday had a strong "tradition" of hunting and they wanted to increase participation in fall turkey hunting because the felt it was underutilized as a resource. Well....ever since that has been implemented, the fall turkey harvests have steadily declined-so it appear that giving that extra SATURDAY to hunt turkeys backfired and actually dropped participation. But now they want to do the same for deer?

Plus, grouse hunters have already lost the late season to hunt and now we are going to take yet another day from them to move the opening day of deer for an unknown.
Nice to know that us turkey hunters are second class citizens and have to give up a day to "possibly" appease some of the deer hunters.
 
#273 ·
Haven't turkey populations been on a decline in the state? Don't you think that is alot of the reason for the decline in harvest. Grouse has been the same and why they eliminated the late season. They easily could add a day to the fall turkey season to make up for the lost day.
 
#274 ·
I've learned at least one thing from this thread....I need to spend a PA deer camp weekend with Cscott1!!

It must be a pretty darn good time at his camp to fight this hard to keep Thanksgiving Saturday a hang-out day at camp. I will bring goose jerky, pheasant jerky, deer jerky, deer bologna, and assorted pork products with me....and I enjoy cutting/gathering firewood - I can help drag deer. I'm not looking to be a free-loader!

Our deer camp is very young and still finding its way, but it is definitely a good time. We usually do not go up until Sunday afternoon though....but that may change in the coming years since Lucas is starting to attend now. He's all amped up about shooting a deer next fall. Hopefully his passion for sports spills over into hunting as well.
 
#292 ·
I've learned at least one thing from this thread....I need to spend a PA deer camp weekend with Cscott1!!

It must be a pretty darn good time at his camp to fight this hard to keep Thanksgiving Saturday a hang-out day at camp. I will bring goose jerky, pheasant jerky, deer jerky, deer bologna, and assorted pork products with me....and I enjoy cutting/gathering firewood - I can help drag deer. I'm not looking to be a free-loader
ill take that as a compliment! Unfortunately I don’t have a camp, I drive 1/2 mile to rifle hunt. In fact I haven’t even hunted the opener in at least ten years. I’m hoping that changes soon though. My situation is due to my job and family responsibilities. A Saturday only offers a slightly better chance for me to hunt. I see the value in tradition and here what the hunters I talk to want so until I see a darn good reason to go away from that I can’t support a Saturday opener.

Judging by the good times I have at a friends camp for the last weekend of flintlock I think I would have a blast at a deer camp opening weekend. And judging by your menu you would be a welcome addition!
 
#282 · (Edited)
...Let's just say this "Saturday" opener is a done deal....
...the numbers get tallied post season and there is minimum harvest change...

OR
....there is a substantial increase in harvest in some WMUs and not others

OR
...there is a decrease in harvest that causes a" management change"

..I would think that changes would be able to be made...the only issue being..would the Sat opener be axed and was THAT the reason for the harvest.


...here's how this topic should and should've been handled...
When we purchased our 2018/2019 license...the questions should have been asked to all hunters

- Do you rifle deer hunt? #1 for yes #2 for no
-If you answered YES ..would you hunt the Saturday after Thanksgiving deer opener? #1 for yes #2 for no

They have the technology to do it...why not do it?....save all the blood pressure meds for the Sunday or Semi-auto deer hunting topics...

..then we have a clear and concise tally...not some newspaper or hunting website survey...
 
#285 ·
I have said it before and I will say it again; Personally I dont care what day of the week rifle season opens on.

But if I was forced to make a decision I would vote for a Saturday opener. That decision is based on it giving one extra day to hunt if one chooses. The only negative effect I see with the Saturday opener is it takes away from the small game hunters.

I think a Saturday opener will have more participation then a Monday opener based on the fact that more people have off on the weekend. But I dont think it will have a measurable effect on the recruitment of new hunters and/or the retention of current hunters.

As far as Monday being a tradition; IMO its a very weak argument.

As far as the claims that the "data" says hunters dont want it to change; Just another weak argument, since they did not question all hunters. Unless the PGC gives ALL of its license holders a chance to give their opinion, they should not use a random questionnaire to make decisions and/or make claims.

Good luck, Tony
 
#288 ·
We all know that any time a poll doesn't yield the result that someone wants, the first thing that gets questioned is the sample size and the polling process.

We also all know that if it yielded the results that they wanted, they would be singing the praises of the very same poll and using it to justify their position. That all goes without saying.
 
#296 ·
I rarely get involved in these debates. If the opener is Saturday I'll hunt it. If its Monday I'll hunt it. I personally prefer Monday. However lets look at the big picture. I hunt public land 2F, 2G, 4D. I know for a fact because of snow cover this year many areas only had someone through them once or twice the entire rifle season and that person was me. I hunted all or part of 9 of the 12 days and covered a lot of ground. I walked close to 40 miles the second week according to my gps unit. The two Saturdays had fair participation in the mornings, by 1:30-2:00 till quitting time basically silence when it came to shots heard and its been like this for the last several years. Saturday opener will turn rifle deer season into a 3 day season, the 3 Saturdays with the afternoons having limited participation. I don't see adding an additional Saturday changing that demographic. All this is just a prelude to the changes to come. As the baby boomers get older, hunter numbers will drop as we die or give it up due to physical problems. The remaining hunters are going to be needing to shot 2 to 3 does apiece just to keep the herd stable. I know a number of young hunters whose parents busted their butts to make sure they were successful and had a good time that no longer hunt. Having a Saturday opener for rifle deer is not going to get them back.
 
#298 ·
I really like the "TRADITION" part of the debate, but mainly for me it creates a difficult situation getting to the cabin on Friday and everything that goes along with that. Then the next very important part would be getting my stand in, and getting myself and gear ready. For this one person, yes, I am a TRADITIONALIST, but if you MUST change things I would rather see it changed to Sunday. YES, I will be out on Saturday if it comes to that but not my first choice.
 
#308 ·
I will also say that I highly doubt that this passes this year. I think there is going to be a big push to legalize Sunday Hunting this year and I look for the BOC to hold off on this to see what happens. If Sundays are legalized or at least some that may impact what they do.
 
#310 ·
Guys...the only instance of this dang survey that you all keep hanging your hat on is in the October 2018 Game News and is in the form of an article. It's not presented as statistics, nor does it merit more than like 3 sentences in a multi page article.

AND... it says 65%.

You're citing and passing reference to survey and quoting the number wrong.

Doesn't improve the viability of that statistic.

The point is potentially valid, but being murky with an already murky stat doesn't help.

I won't question the validity of their survey method, but good Lord...no one even knows anything about it other than what an article says in three vague sentences.
 
#317 ·
Not sure if they did a more recent survey, but go to question 57.

https://www.pgc.pa.gov/InformationR...unter Survey - Report - Statewide Results.pdf

A couple of things.

1. It does not say on the Saturday vs Monday that a day would be added to the season. That makes a difference in my opinion.

2. It says preference.

3. To gauge dissatisfaction with a Saturday opener you would need a scale of dissatisfaction with a Strong disagree, somewhat disagree, neutral, etc. There wasn't even an option to say "I don't care either way". You had to pick one or the other.

This is why you have to be careful with survey data. Unless it of course would agree with my line of thinking. >:)
 
#323 ·
Thanks Cspot. I did see that survey but did not read through it because I thought there was a more recent survey on the subject. I agree that the single question does not address the added day. The added day was the deciding factor for me and I am sure for alot of other hunters. I also have to question the validity of a 4 year old survey.

Good luck, Tony
 
#325 ·
At this point, they are going to do what they are going to do. I believe the biggest change I have seen in hunting in my lifetime was the implementation of AR/HR. In the end, those changes proved to be a lot for some people and it resulted in the largest decline in hunter participation that we've had, for various reasons - one of them being the amount of ground that got posted.
Right here and now, with all of these proposals for change coming down the pipe, I believe that we are on the precipice of another time of big change, and we will see the same results for the same reasons. If all of this stuff gets implemented, within 5 years from that happening, we will see another large drop in hunter participation and license sales. It is just too much for some.
I will continue to hunt whether I like this stuff or not, but to me some of it is very frustrating. A lot of people just say the heck with it and give up. I love hunting too much for that, I guess we will see.
 
#327 ·
9 On what kind of land did you hunt deer in Pennsylvania during the 2013 14 seasons?

55% Privately owned land ex Owned by private citizens and companies

16%Publicly owned land ex Government-ownedlands like State Game Lands and State Forests

29% Both privately and publicly owned land.


Someone was asking for this on another post. Waugh!
 
#331 ·
Saturday has never been seriously discussed to the extent that it is now, even you-as much as you like to argue with me-have to admit that, so it is new news. And the fact that most aren't aware of it is why I said it would take 5 years to see the loss.
The change that I'm talking about is not just the Saturday opener. Look at all of the proposals being made. As an aggregate, it is a lot. Most will likely not pass right away, but over a couple years it will. And what else will be coming then as well. As a rule people do not like change, and it causes some to give up. There is no disputing that.
So much has changed over the last 20 years that I believe it is just too much for some. We have plenty of hunting opportunity as it is right now. Harvests could be managed simply through tag allocations. A lot of folks, myself included, believe things should stay as they are for a while.
 
#335 ·
I don't like to argue with you, but it is just that you are usually wrong. :grin2: Also remember it takes 2 to argue. >:)

This is the first time that it has made the agenda. I know a few years ago it was discussed at quite length in a BOC working group meeting. Not sure when but I remember Martone was on the board so it has been a little while. I think it was discussed a year or 2 ago again.

I look at things differently. With a declining hunting population, opportunities can and should be added. Some of it will have to be added just to keep the deer population in balance. Take a look at 2A this year. They cut the antlerless allocation and it still didn't sell out of tags. Some of that might have been the EHD outbreak last year, but it has been barely selling out for the last several years (sells out near or in rifle season). More opportunity is going to have to be added if they want to maintain the same deer population. The ironic thing is 2A has some of the highest deer populations in the state, is close to urbanized areas, and isn't that difficult to get permission to hunt.

Can't remember if you were on here when the early muzzleloader and early JR/SR seasons were approved, but there was alot of complaining over that. Turns out that sky didn't fall.
 
#334 ·
I'll tell you another frustration on this thing. Where I work our vacation has to be submitted by Feb15th. With these deer and ml bear proposals being up in the air, what the heck do you choose as vacation??? You could schedule stuff, then it gets changed, and you end up not being able to go because someone else has the new dates scheduled.....WTH???? This year could be a big cluster for some hunters if this stuff goes through.
 
#337 ·
That is a big problem with changes to seasons for no other reason than change for the sake of change. There are people who need consistency in order to pick their vacation.
 
#339 ·
I believe they will getting a lot of comments on this possible Saturday start to deer season. I know I let all the guys know yesterday about the possible change of the opener 7 half of them have already e-mailed their comments to the PGC on the subject & I will shortly be joining them.
 
#346 ·
If it happens then there is nothing you can do about it other than change what day your
going to Hunt. Is it really that big of a Deal? Get over it and move on.
You would think they are closing the Season down all together by the reactions.
One way or the other Move On,
Just like we did when they implemented the concurrent seasons, Buck and Doe.
Find something else to do during the end of Hunting season blues, Trapping, Bird Watching, shed hunting etc.
 
#348 ·
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