Is this really safe? - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
g17
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Is this really safe?

The following violation data comes from the report available to all at Pennsylvania's
Department of Environmental Protection site:
http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/DEPUT...OGInspviol.htm

This is just the data for Bradford County, Pa for the 2011 year to date. The following data was compiled
from that report on December 17th, 2011.

Towanda 015-20221 defective casing - 3/3/2011 Chesapeake
Terry 015-20702 defective casing - 3/4/2011 Chesapeake
Wyalusing 015-20715 defective casing - 6/21/2011 Chesapeake
Wyalusing 015-20720 defective casing - 5/18/2011 Chesapeake
Standing Stone 015-20732 defective casing - 3/22/2011 Chesapeake
Troy 015-20759 improper casing - 3/22/2011 Chesapeake
Troy 015-20760 improper casing - 3/22/2011 Chesapeake
Wyalusing 015-20857 defective casing - 6/21/2011 Chesapeake
Orwell 015-20865 defective casing - 5/18/2011 Chesapeake
Orwell 015-20871 defective casing - 3/3/2011 Chesapeake
Wyalusing 015-20922 defective casing - 6/21/2011 Chesapeake
Wyalusing 015-20923 defective casing - 6/21/2011 Chesapeake
Wysox 015-21180 defective casing - 4/20/2011 Chesapeake
Orwell 015-21388 defective casing - 8/23/2011 Chesapeake
Sheshequin 015-21403 defective casing - 8/21/2011 Chesapeake
Overton 015-21512 defective casing - 7/29/2011 Chesapeake
Asylum 015-21341 defective casing - 4/14/2011 Chief
Asylum 015-21352 defective casing - 4/14/2011 Chief
Stevens 015-20837 defective casing - 5/11/2011 Southwestern

All violations listed as defective casing were leaking gas and none of them were reported to the DEP.

Additional violations include but are in no way limited to:

failure to properly store, transport, process, or dispose of residual waste - 13 violations.
discharge of pollutional material to waters of the Commonwealth - 26 violations.

Keep in mind the DEP is short staffed. A DEP policy adopted and published in 1989 requires a MINIMUM of 12
inspections at each well. http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/02...8/s78.903.html

Currently the DEP is only inspecting a fraction of current gas wells. Estimated between 1/4 and 1/3 of all
gas well are inspected, This means that currently between 66 and 75 percent of all gas well are not inspected.
Does this mean the number of violations would increase? I think any reasonable person would have to
agree it absolutely would. How much? That's anyone's guess. Mathematically speaking, I believe it would be
reasonable to expect 2 - 3 times the number of violations currently reported by the DEP.

I am not making a statement of any sort here just reporting the data that is freely available to all and asking the question:
Do you feel this is safe or not and why?

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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 03:30 PM
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Re: Is this really safe?

About 33,000 deaths in the US from traffic accidents last year... You don't happen to drive do ya?

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post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Is this really safe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by timberdoodle
About 33,000 deaths in the US from traffic accidents last year... You don't happen to drive do ya?
About half of those due to driving under the influence. We do throw those bums in jail. And I wasn't providing statistics for the entire country. To make a fair comparison let's go with this report:

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/departments...County_2009.PDF
This report shows between 2005 and 2009 there was an average of 8.6 traffic fatalities per year in Bradford County. That is disproportionately low compared to the number of violations issued in Bradford County to the gas industry. So I'll ask, what's your point?

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post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 04:24 PM
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Re: Is this really safe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by g17
All violations listed as defective casing were leaking gas and none of them were reported to the DEP
ok, who wrote all those violations if they weren't reported to DEP? How did DEP find out about them if they weren't reported to DEP?

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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Is this really safe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by timberdoodle
Quote:
Originally Posted by g17
All violations listed as defective casing were leaking gas and none of them were reported to the DEP
ok, who wrote all those violations if they weren't reported to DEP? How did DEP find out about them if they weren't reported to DEP?
Fair enough question. As far as I know, the DEP wrote the violations. The DEP inspectors uncovered violations during their inspections. In a nutshell if the well you are working on is now bubbling gas around the well casing, the driller is supposed to notify the DEP within 24 hours. In these instances the drilling companies did not notify the DEP. Instead, DEP's inspectors uncovered it during routine inspections. Any other questions?
Would you like to provide an answer to the question I asked?
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post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 04:50 PM
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Re: Is this really safe?

You m ean is it safe? Relatively speaking yes I think it is safe. Are there risks? Yes. Most definitely.

http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/dep...#axzz1goodA14p

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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Is this really safe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by timberdoodle
You m ean is it safe? Relatively speaking yes I think it is safe. Are there risks? Yes. Most definitely.

http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/dep...#axzz1goodA14p
The question was do you think it's safe and why? just looking for other's insight. Personally, I do not believe it to be safe. My reason for this is partly the data provided in addition to other references I have seen. Do I think the drillers can do a better job and make it safer by leaps and bounds? Absolutely! I just think at present time we are not there yet. Again, just a matter of opinion, no wrong, no right answer - just looking for other opinions aside from what is published in the papers.

The story you linked to is definitely a step in the right direction. The problem is the DEP is still woefully understaffed as far as inspectors go. Hence the 66 - 75 percent range of wells that are not inspected even once Considering it is the DEP's policy to inspect each and every well a minimum of 12 times, I dont' know what it could be besides a manpower issue.
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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 06:20 PM
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Re: Is this really safe?

your comparing trafic fatalities to gas well violations, not quite apples for apples. why don't you compare all trafic violations to all gas well violations and trafic fatalities to gas well fatalities, I haven't heard of a well bubbling gas around the casing killin anyone yet!!
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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Is this really safe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jj103.5
your comparing trafic fatalities to gas well violations, not quite apples for apples. why don't you compare all trafic violations to all gas well violations and trafic fatalities to gas well fatalities, I haven't heard of a well bubbling gas around the casing killin anyone yet!!
If you were following the post, you would have seen I was merely replying to someone who brought up car fatalities. Never said gas bubbling around wells causes fatalities. All it says about that according to the EPA report is that it is a defective well casings. Well casings that leak can contaminate a nearby water supply. This little tidbit of info is not disputed by the gas industry. Drinking said water is probably not great for your health.

Being you felt the need to hop in, why don't you answer the original question.. do you feel it's safe and why?
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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 06:45 PM
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Re: Is this really safe?

Just curious G.

Whats your goal here.

Very obviously, you oppose drilling and using the gas.

So do you want to get everyone on your side to stop the gas play, or do you want something else?


Most here seem to want the gas and the economic boost that it gives the state, right along with the employment that comes with it.

In a nut shell, over the years, it has come down to a wise use and extraction acceptance. Conservation methodology is essential. Use the resource with protections for the environment while extracting it and getting it to market.

The question is, why the sudden appearance here that is seemingly dedicated to the horrors of gas drilling. Whats the goal? Any affiliations?

Is your position a short term gain - or a long term loss? Separate the issues.
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