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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-10-2015, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
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Baseball HOF

Biggio gets in hitting .281 with 291 HRs, but Bonds and Clemens (who never broke a rule) don't. Character issues?

Ty Cobb-possibly one of the most foul people ever to set foot on an athletic field--unquestioned HOFer, first ballot.

Babe Ruth-Alcoholic womanizer, considered by many, including me, to be the most important player in the game's history.

Mickey Mantle-switch hitting version of the Babe.

Shoeless Joe Jackson-teammates threw a World Series, he didn't. Can't even get on the ballot.

Pete Rose is different. He knowingly broke one of the games most stringent rules. He deserves what he's getting. No, he's not the only guy to ever do it, but you can only punish the guys you catch.

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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-10-2015, 10:49 PM
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Re: Baseball HOF

Who's to say Biggio wasn't juicing? Just never caught.
HOF is just basically a collection of stats.
Kinda hard to have a Legit HOF when
the all time hits leader (Rose)
the all time hr leader (Bonds)
guy in top 10 in wins (Clemens)

Not in. ???
Guys can be jerks , shouldn't matter.
Not a HOF for personality.

Carve your successes in stone ,
Leave your failures in the sand.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-11-2015, 12:20 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Baseball HOF

Rose made his own bed. He broke a very well known and clear rule. Bonds, Clemens, McGwire and the others did not. If they did juice, they broke a law. I bet there are a few guys who are in the HOF that broke a law or three.

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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-11-2015, 01:00 AM
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Re: Baseball HOF

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelerfan58
Rose made his own bed. He broke a very well known and clear rule. Bonds, Clemens, McGwire and the others did not. If they did juice, they broke a law. I bet there are a few guys who are in the HOF that broke a law or three.
You know Bonds, Clemens, and Big Mac all juiced......


Pete Rose deserves to be in the HOF, as does Shoeless Joe, the others I don't know

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-11-2015, 01:04 AM
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Re: Baseball HOF

Quote:
Pete Rose deserves to be in the HOF, as does Shoeless Joe, the others I don't know
Pete Rose agreed to a ban from baseball. Case closed on him.

Its funny until somebody gets hurt, then its hilarious
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-11-2015, 02:14 AM
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Re: Baseball HOF


6 Superbowl Champion STEELERS, 5 World Series Champion PIRATES, 4 Stanley Cup Champion PENGUINS!!!
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-11-2015, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Baseball HOF

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Originally Posted by Buckshot1822
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelerfan58
Rose made his own bed. He broke a very well known and clear rule. Bonds, Clemens, McGwire and the others did not. If they did juice, they broke a law. I bet there are a few guys who are in the HOF that broke a law or three.
You know Bonds, Clemens, and Big Mac all juiced......


Pete Rose deserves to be in the HOF, as does Shoeless Joe, the others I don't know
I believe they were as well. A lot of other guys were too. Steroids didn't give Bonds and Mac the unreal hand eye coordination. I honestly think a lot of the HR numbers were a result of a lot of marginally talented pitchers juicing so they could throw 100 mph. Oliver Perez comes to mind. The problem is that a lot of them threw it right down the middle. Clemens didn't give up many more HR balls later than he did earlier in his career. He knew how to pitch. In any case, I have a hard time calling them cheaters when they followed the rules of the game. How many guys are in the football HOF that juiced during a time when it didn't violate a rule? Rose knew the consequences when he agreed to a lifetime ban. We all know big, strong guys. They ain't playing major league baseball. There are a lot of guys who juiced that did not have the kind of success of Bonds and Clemens. They are forgotten, because THEY WEREN'T GOOD ENOUGH. You have to look at the era in which guys played. Case in point-Carl Yastrzemski once won a batting title hitting a "stellar" .301. HRs league wide were up during the time Bonds played. Griffey Jr was clean, and his numbers rose as well. Something else, besides raw strength increase, must have been involved.

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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-13-2015, 12:34 AM
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Re: Baseball HOF

I cant take any HOF seriously that doesn't admit the greatest hitter and the best home run hitter in the history of the game.

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-13-2015, 12:58 AM
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Re: Baseball HOF

If you're referring to Pete Rose as the greatest hitter it's not even close. While Rose may have the most hits he is 172nd on the list in lifetime batting average.

Ty Cobb hit .366. Pete hit .303. Babe Ruth hit .342 with a few more homers than Pete.

Pete would have been a first ballot Hall of Famer but he messed up. He agreed to a lifetime ban. He's not in because of things he did, not MLB.

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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-13-2015, 06:11 AM
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Re: Baseball HOF

PED'S are prevelent in every sport played on the planet at every level. Guys use PED's to play slow pitch softball for trophys for crying out loud. It's been going on in baseball since the early 1980's, and the NFL since the 1970's. Track and field and weight lifting are probably where it began. As much as we want our sports to be pure they never will be. Is there anyone alive who thinks the NFL is steroid free? If there is I got a bridge to sell ya.
It's not just money although it is a major contributing factor. Ego drives the athlete as well. His own competitive nature constantly spurring him on.
The mountain of evidence baseball aquired on Rose and his gambling will forever keep him out of the hall and yes he accepted the ban to keep that evidence hidden. Rose was and still is lying trash.
It is an interesting discussion and a bit late because there are already players in the baseball HOF who used PED's and Canton is filled with them. Heck Tommy John surgery is performance enhancing isn't it? Baseball and football players have been using amphetamines forever. Need we bring Lawrence Taylor into this discussion? Cocaine on the field? during the games?
We know Canseco was right now and baseball had to admit it so where are we? No player can ever be deemed clean, from Griffey to Biggio so the only fair way is numbers.

Intelligence without wisdom is Modern Society............
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