barrel inserts for nef legal for hunting? - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-08-2012, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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barrel inserts for nef legal for hunting?

The inserts for shotgun barrels have some good reviews and bad.surely i dont expect tack driving accuracy, and with the single bead on my gun dont expect much but would they be legal for hunting as long as the cartridge of choice is legal?
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-09-2012, 07:36 PM
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Re: barrel inserts for nef legal for hunting?

I don't see why not. 2 shot is not legal for turkey but my gun can still shoot it. Don't think it matters what the gun is capable of as long as your legal.

Your just jealous because I've been chatting online with babes all day!!
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 04:34 PM
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Re: barrel inserts for nef legal for hunting?

if your thinking about using an rifle insert in an H&R shotgun, the question is is it strong enough to handle the cartridge. with the doubled barrel walls the barrel might be strong enough, but if its the unhardened sb-1 receiver the back thrust might be to excessive. I would do alot of research before spending the money on the tube. good luck in your search jim
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 05:27 PM
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Re: barrel inserts for nef legal for hunting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gruvco2
if your thinking about using an rifle insert in an H&R shotgun, the question is is it strong enough to handle the cartridge. with the doubled barrel walls the barrel might be strong enough, but if its the unhardened sb-1 receiver the back thrust might be to excessive. I would do alot of research before spending the money on the tube. good luck in your search jim
SB1's will handle any rimfire, shotgun, and most cartridges under the 44mag's pressures and thrust.

An insert will handle the pressures, so the barrel/chamber will do very little. Once the bullet leaves the insert pressures will drop well below the typical 14K limit that shotguns work in.

Those short chamber inserts though are rather useless. When the bullet leaves the insert, the expanding gases usually knock the bullet off a straight trajectory because of it escaping around and in front of the bullet while it is in the barrel.

The longer, almost barrel length inserts seem to work reasonably, but can still suffer from gas blow-by if the end of the insert is still within the barrel of the host gun.

If you have to track your game, then you aren't using a big enuff gun.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 06:31 PM
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Re: barrel inserts for nef legal for hunting?

Not for a shotgun, but there were inserts made to shoot 22 RF in an 8 mm mauser. They were quite well made and had barrel length insert barrels.

I think the problem may come down to whether the insert cartridge may also be legal for that season. A shotgun with fine shot is legal for small game. Is a shotgun firing a 22 RF insert legal? It is no longer fine shot. Or does the insert change the gun from shotgun to rifle.

This are several hybrid firearms which are not clearly addressed by the law and for which there is no answer. For instance several rifles from the 1880 and 21890's could fire either center fire or rim fire by flipping a lever on the hammer. If I go out hunting deer with my Wesson rifle in 38 XL Ballard centerfire, is the gun illegal because without alteration it could also shoot 38 XL rimfire?

Suppose I put a 36 caliber muzzleloading 209 insert in a 20 gauge shot gun. Is the shotgun illegal for small game because it no longer is loaded with fine shot? IS it legal for Deer because it is a centerfire insert? Is it illegal for deer because the insert is 36 caliber? Does it make a difference if the insert can be loaded in place in the shotgun, or needs to be removed to be reloaded like a centerfire cartridge?
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 09:17 PM
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Re: barrel inserts for nef legal for hunting?

My 0.02$ from a conversation I had with the PAGC on facebook a while back. I think if the weapon can be converted to a non legal weapon for the season (adding or subtracting the insert in the field) the weapon will be illegal. I take this worthless 0.02$ opinion from asking about requirements for orange when transitioning from a deer/turkey hunt to fox and coon calling after legal big game hunting hours.

You can have it when you rip it from my cold, dead hands.........
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 08:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: barrel inserts for nef legal for hunting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knight0334
Quote:
Originally Posted by gruvco2
if your thinking about using an rifle insert in an H&R shotgun, the question is is it strong enough to handle the cartridge. with the doubled barrel walls the barrel might be strong enough, but if its the unhardened sb-1 receiver the back thrust might be to excessive. I would do alot of research before spending the money on the tube. good luck in your search jim
SB1's will handle any rimfire, shotgun, and most cartridges under the 44mag's pressures and thrust.

An insert will handle the pressures, so the barrel/chamber will do very little. Once the bullet leaves the insert pressures will drop well below the typical 14K limit that shotguns work in.

Those short chamber inserts though are rather useless. When the bullet leaves the insert, the expanding gases usually knock the bullet off a straight trajectory because of it escaping around and in front of the bullet while it is in the barrel.

The longer, almost barrel length inserts seem to work reasonably, but can still suffer from gas blow-by if the end of the insert is still within the barrel of the host gun.
i agree,i have found some that are 14" and some that are 18",the barrel i have is 20.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: barrel inserts for nef legal for hunting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmerstutzen
Not for a shotgun, but there were inserts made to shoot 22 RF in an 8 mm mauser. They were quite well made and had barrel length insert barrels.

I think the problem may come down to whether the insert cartridge may also be legal for that season. A shotgun with fine shot is legal for small game. Is a shotgun firing a 22 RF insert legal? It is no longer fine shot. Or does the insert change the gun from shotgun to rifle.

This are several hybrid firearms which are not clearly addressed by the law and for which there is no answer. For instance several rifles from the 1880 and 21890's could fire either center fire or rim fire by flipping a lever on the hammer. If I go out hunting deer with my Wesson rifle in 38 XL Ballard centerfire, is the gun illegal because without alteration it could also shoot 38 XL rimfire?

Suppose I put a 36 caliber muzzleloading 209 insert in a 20 gauge shot gun. Is the shotgun illegal for small game because it no longer is loaded with fine shot? IS it legal for Deer because it is a centerfire insert? Is it illegal for deer because the insert is 36 caliber? Does it make a difference if the insert can be loaded in place in the shotgun, or needs to be removed to be reloaded like a centerfire cartridge?
whats the difference of what i am shooting out of the guns as long as the cartridge chosen is legal for the game,like a 20 gauge for small game,i can slip a insert in and shoot a 22 mag and still be legal...
i am not talking about making it into a muzzleloader,thats not gonna fly i am sure,they probably dont make inserts for that,theres a few choices for 20 gauge and even more choices for 12
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 02:56 PM
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Re: barrel inserts for nef legal for hunting?

It is relatively easy to make a muzzleloader insert for a shotgun, and using 209 primers utilizes the same firing pin.
In fact, if the insert must be removed to reload it then it is the same as a cartridge isn't it.

In fact I made a 223 insert for my 10ga.

My buddy and I made a 410 insert to slip into his 12 gauge.

The game law regulates some types of guns by ignition, some by barrel rifling and some by caliber size. If a rifle shoots a bullet through a rifled bore, then isn't a Mossberg 12 ga with a rifled slug barrel a rifle? Is a 22 rim fire rifle loaded with bird dust a shotgun despite the rifling. Shotguns are legal for hunting under some circumstances. when used with fine shot no larger than a specified size., for small game. So then if you attempt to shoot a 22 mag through an insert, it no longer uses fine shot and would be illegal, unless the insert converts it to a rifle. These are the sorts of things that the PGC and the game law have not addressed. Lets say you buy a rifled single shot 12 ga with rifle sights and slide a 30-30 insert into it. Is it still a shot gun? is it a rifle? Is such a shotgun illegal for deer because the slug is under the size of a 410 ga.?

In 1977, the game law was much simpler for what was legal. For deer, ANY firearm propelling a ball or bullet, except for rimfires 25 cal and less. (semi auto and auto guns were prohibited under a different section) So an insert in a shotgun would not have mattered. Today, I am not so sure. Many firearms were written out of the law because of the way legal hunting firearms are now regulated.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: barrel inserts for nef legal for hunting?

i think the game code is pretty specific about what/when you can use a gun of choice.i cant see any problem other than carring a insert for a caliber during muzzleloader season bigger than what small game allows,even then with a furtaker permit and a valad muzzlerloader liscense and a deer tag,you could still hunt coyote with a insert largr than 22.
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