Allegheny National Park ??? - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
 10Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-06-2018, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
RTH
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Home 2B Camp 2F (Sheffield)
Posts: 1,746
Back To Top
Allegheny National Park ???

Recently a group came to allot of our areas attention. The Allegheny National Park Campaign. This group was formed sometime in 2017, with the idea of converting a large part of our area in to a National Park. In their minds they believe it will be the savior of the area. It seems the point person has roots in Warren County, and believes that this will bring so much additional tourism to the local economy, that it would change the place forever.

Their plans, which seem to change constantly, impact the entire region, to include, Warren, Crawford, Venango, Forest, Clarion, Elk, And McKean counties, as well as New York counties.

They believe much of the Allegheny National Forest, Oil Creek, Clear Creek, Cooks Forest, and other areas should be designated as a NATIONAL PARK, similar to Yosemite or Yellowstone. This would bring strict limitations to use, impacting and prohibiting many of the activities we enjoy.

Several people within the area, including myself have gotten into conversations with them, but as soon as you bring any opposition, the post will be deleted. I have also been blocked from commenting on their page. Note - I have never been offensive or out of line

I have only been directly connected to the area for 4 years now. I own property, I pay taxes, I live here 50% of the year, and visit as much as possible the rest and I love it.
I contribute to the local economy as much as i can. I shop at the local hardwares, the local markets. I eat at the local restaurants, and fish and hunt the local woods.

I enjoy the forest for what it is, but most of all I enjoy the people I have met since arriving here.

From Cougar Bobs, to the Shaw House and Blue Jay, from George’s to Hallers to the Leeper Market, from Hickory Creek Outdoors to Abe’s. The people of this area make the area, whether visitors, full-time or part time residents. We are the area, and majority are open to visitors.

I am strongly opposed to any designated National Park status whatsoever, the National Forest is just fine, but I also know there are official paths to be followed.

I want this group be a place for the entire area to come together and share opinions, beliefs, news or info of any sort, so if and when the time comes we are educated.

You can try to follow the Allegheny National Park Campaign Group, but be careful what you say or question. This group,has structured a proposed basicall eminating ame any outdoor activities as we know it of the forest

PLEASE JOIN OUR group NO Allegheny National Park on Facebook

Last edited by RTH; 03-06-2018 at 09:57 PM.
RTH is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-07-2018, 08:23 AM
Diehard Outdoorsman
 
WilySpike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sheffield Home, Hearts Content camp
Posts: 4,832
Back To Top
I know some of you go to Hatteras National seashore. You may recall the change to driving on the beach. When this park was created driving was to be left as it was,Well now you have to get a permit ( FEE ) and only can in certain areas! Then there is the pipping plover issue. A bird that started to nest on the islands and when they are you can not even walk in the area with out a fine!!! This bird nest in other areas so it is not like the only ones there area!!

Just think you may have to pay a fee to use this proposed park! Even to get to your camps!!!

The last info from them said all of us against this will die off and the younger people will change it to fit them!!

This is the type of things that WILL change if this happens.
WilySpike is online now  
post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-07-2018, 08:29 AM
Frequent Contributor
 
treetipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: NW PA
Posts: 986
Back To Top
That would put alot of timber industry employees out of business..
Marcus99 likes this.

"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
treetipper is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-07-2018, 08:53 AM
The Man
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,837
Back To Top
They can push whatever they want. With the amount of gas wells and timbering in the area, not to mention the number of seasonal dwellings in the area that would be impacted, it will never happen. Ever.
JasonN, TrailMan and Dennis Hill like this.
kudu58 is offline  
post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-07-2018, 03:35 PM
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Conestoga&Mills
Posts: 1,160
Back To Top
not familiar with that area ,I 'm more east of there but I agree with kudu58 probably never happen ,sounds like a lot of talk
Dennis Hill is offline  
post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-07-2018, 04:42 PM
Regular Visitor
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Maine
Posts: 79
Back To Top
"Never happen here".

That's what people said in Maine, when Roxanne Quimby started buying up land with her Burt's Bees money. People who had had camps (cabins) on the land suddenly found that their land lease was not being renewed, and they were told to get off Quimby's land. Note: many of the camps were built on timber company-owned land which the timber companies leased to locals. Since the timber companies were working on a harvest cycle of 80-100 years, so long as you didn't burn or cut down their woods they were fine with you leasing their land and putting a cabin on the lease. Made them a little - emphasis on "little" - money, too.

When the leases were up, Quimby had crews come in and burn the cabins, then bulldoze the remains into the ground. Then she put up gates to keep people out. And large boulders to block the roads and any bypasses around her gates. And she had armed patrols - many of them former game wardens - riding the perimeter in expensive trucks to keep you out. And she banned hunting, fishing and just about any other access, too. And that included the people who had to cross her land to get to theirs by virtue of being landlocked by her holdings.

This was all in anticipation of the Northern Woods National Park, which was first proposed during the Clinton Administration. It came to nothing then, in the face of local opposition. The opposition was fueled by Quimby's high-handed behavior, made worse by her being not from Maine, but from Massachusetts.

Things went on the back burner for a number of years. Quimby became less publicly visible. (I think I heard there were threats on her life, but I don't know that for sure.) She continued to buy land and block people from entering. A lot of money from beeswax lip balm. BTW, Burt, Quimby's former partner whose bearded face appears on the products, died a few years ago aged about 80. He lived in a rural Maine cabin without electricity, indoor plumbing or running water. I dunno whether she euchred him out of his half, but according to all the reports I've read he harbored no bitterness toward her.

Except for a chosen few no one got to enter her land. She would allow outdoor writers and media types friendly to her plans to go and have pretty-much unlimited access on her property. In exchange, these writers would put out glowing stories about the bright shiny future that a national park in northern Maine would produce.

Circa 2010, her holdings had come up to encompass most of the area between the west bank of the East Branch of the Penobscot River and Baxter State Park, wherein lies Mount Kathadin. There remained one camp which was a particular thorn in her plans. This one was a commercial camp started in the 1800s, about halfway down a stretch of that river about 30 or so miles long running south from the road leading from Shin Pond to Grand Lake Matagamon. This is a very rugged stretch of river - many high-number rapids and waterfalls. You can look this all up on a map.

There are no bridges over the Penobscot for that entire stretch, save one. At that camp. It's an old GI-surplus suspension bridge that connects all the snowmobile trails on the east side of the river with all those one the west. The owner of the camp was looking to sell - aging out, I heard - but was adamant he would not sell to Quimby, ever. Getting that bridge would have allowed her to close the snowmobile trails on the west side of the river and lock up that entire bank.

Ultimately, another outfitter bought the camp under the proviso it would never be sold to Quimby. I stayed there the year after this sale for a week of grouse hunting and had a great time.

Once this other outfitter took over the camp, Quimby changed her tune. Her son came into the picture and took a more soft-soap approach. He opened the land to hunting and fishing and such, removing the guards but not the gates (or not all of them). And he hired a public relations and lobbying firm to figure out how to get the National Park. Long story short, they came up with the plan to have it declared a "National Monument". Under the Antiquities Act, the President can declare federal property a National Monument with little or no input from anyone else, and less opportunity to block it. They spent a good bit of money on lobbying, and glossy presentations. Disregarding the local municpalities, which held referenda showing continuing and widespread opposition to the National Park, National Monument or National whatever, they went ahead and got a deal done in the last months of the Obama administration. Quimby deeded all her land to the federal government to create a National Monument, with the deed containing a proviso that if it were to cease being a National Monument the land would revert to her.

Yes, there is some hunting in the National Monument. And some fishing. And lots and lots of glowing press coverage.

Not much benefit to the locals.

This guy with the Facebook Allegheny National Park page says he's comfortable with being the public face of the movement. That just means he's a face for the antis behind the park plan. The website and so on are entirely too slick to be some local guy with a great idea.
Dave in Maine is offline  
post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-07-2018, 04:55 PM
The Man
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,837
Back To Top
Like I said earlier, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN HERE. NEVER.
kudu58 is offline  
post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-07-2018, 06:05 PM
Diehard Outdoorsman
 
WilySpike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sheffield Home, Hearts Content camp
Posts: 4,832
Back To Top
Quote:
Originally Posted by kudu58 View Post
Like I said earlier, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN HERE. NEVER.
Do not say never as things can and do happen in strange ways when it comes to politicians!!
WilySpike is online now  
post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-07-2018, 06:46 PM
Regular Member
 
Buckskin Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Live in Venango County. Hunting Camp in Warren County
Posts: 2,252
Back To Top
The best cherry lumber in the world comes from the ANF. Not the best in Pa, not the best in the US, the best in the world. No way the Forest service is giving that up. Now, is it possible that some parts of the ANF could be zoned "wilderness" areas where no drilling or logging would be allowed? Yeah, that could happen. From what Im told the Forest service stated they would be open to that. I think they said 10% of the ANF in different areas. But that's been years now and even that went nowhere. I don't think we really need to sweat this one to much.
kudu58 likes this.

Listen, or your tongue will make you deaf.

"When a pine needle falls in the forest, the eagle sees it, the deer hears it, and the bear smells it."
an old First Nations saying
Buckskin Dave is offline  
post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-07-2018, 07:13 PM
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,925
Back To Top
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Maine View Post
"Never happen here".

That's what people said in Maine, when Roxanne Quimby started buying up land with her Burt's Bees money. People who had had camps (cabins) on the land suddenly found that their land lease was not being renewed, and they were told to get off Quimby's land. Note: many of the camps were built on timber company-owned land which the timber companies leased to locals. Since the timber companies were working on a harvest cycle of 80-100 years, so long as you didn't burn or cut down their woods they were fine with you leasing their land and putting a cabin on the lease. Made them a little - emphasis on "little" - money, too.

When the leases were up, Quimby had crews come in and burn the cabins, then bulldoze the remains into the ground. Then she put up gates to keep people out. And large boulders to block the roads and any bypasses around her gates. And she had armed patrols - many of them former game wardens - riding the perimeter in expensive trucks to keep you out. And she banned hunting, fishing and just about any other access, too. And that included the people who had to cross her land to get to theirs by virtue of being landlocked by her holdings.

This was all in anticipation of the Northern Woods National Park, which was first proposed during the Clinton Administration. It came to nothing then, in the face of local opposition. The opposition was fueled by Quimby's high-handed behavior, made worse by her being not from Maine, but from Massachusetts.

Things went on the back burner for a number of years. Quimby became less publicly visible. (I think I heard there were threats on her life, but I don't know that for sure.) She continued to buy land and block people from entering. A lot of money from beeswax lip balm. BTW, Burt, Quimby's former partner whose bearded face appears on the products, died a few years ago aged about 80. He lived in a rural Maine cabin without electricity, indoor plumbing or running water. I dunno whether she euchred him out of his half, but according to all the reports I've read he harbored no bitterness toward her.

Except for a chosen few no one got to enter her land. She would allow outdoor writers and media types friendly to her plans to go and have pretty-much unlimited access on her property. In exchange, these writers would put out glowing stories about the bright shiny future that a national park in northern Maine would produce.

Circa 2010, her holdings had come up to encompass most of the area between the west bank of the East Branch of the Penobscot River and Baxter State Park, wherein lies Mount Kathadin. There remained one camp which was a particular thorn in her plans. This one was a commercial camp started in the 1800s, about halfway down a stretch of that river about 30 or so miles long running south from the road leading from Shin Pond to Grand Lake Matagamon. This is a very rugged stretch of river - many high-number rapids and waterfalls. You can look this all up on a map.

There are no bridges over the Penobscot for that entire stretch, save one. At that camp. It's an old GI-surplus suspension bridge that connects all the snowmobile trails on the east side of the river with all those one the west. The owner of the camp was looking to sell - aging out, I heard - but was adamant he would not sell to Quimby, ever. Getting that bridge would have allowed her to close the snowmobile trails on the west side of the river and lock up that entire bank.

Ultimately, another outfitter bought the camp under the proviso it would never be sold to Quimby. I stayed there the year after this sale for a week of grouse hunting and had a great time.

Once this other outfitter took over the camp, Quimby changed her tune. Her son came into the picture and took a more soft-soap approach. He opened the land to hunting and fishing and such, removing the guards but not the gates (or not all of them). And he hired a public relations and lobbying firm to figure out how to get the National Park. Long story short, they came up with the plan to have it declared a "National Monument". Under the Antiquities Act, the President can declare federal property a National Monument with little or no input from anyone else, and less opportunity to block it. They spent a good bit of money on lobbying, and glossy presentations. Disregarding the local municpalities, which held referenda showing continuing and widespread opposition to the National Park, National Monument or National whatever, they went ahead and got a deal done in the last months of the Obama administration. Quimby deeded all her land to the federal government to create a National Monument, with the deed containing a proviso that if it were to cease being a National Monument the land would revert to her.

Yes, there is some hunting in the National Monument. And some fishing. And lots and lots of glowing press coverage.

Not much benefit to the locals.

This guy with the Facebook Allegheny National Park page says he's comfortable with being the public face of the movement. That just means he's a face for the antis behind the park plan. The website and so on are entirely too slick to be some local guy with a great idea.
Beautiful area up there. I spent a week at Baxter a few years ago and I was thoroughly impressed. While I don't fully support the monument designation and the restrictions that come with it, it's a heck of a lot better than some of the alternatives.

For the record I absolutely love the National Park system. My wife and I have unofficially set off on a quest to see as many as possible. We've been to probably 8 different parks in the last 6-7 years. That being said I cannot say that I support the ANF being turned into a park.

Last edited by Marcus99; 03-07-2018 at 08:07 PM.
Marcus99 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome