Rosenberry Game News Article - Deer Hunting - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-19-2013, 10:34 PM Thread Starter
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Rosenberry Game News Article - Deer Hunting

<span style="font-weight: bold">Beyond Old Deer Riflesand Hillbilly Hats</span>

By Christopher Rosenberry,
Supervisory Deer and Elk Biologist


I HAVE never been accused of being on the cutting edge when it comes to the latest and greatest new things.
That is probably why I don’t have a Facebook account and why I have
used the same rifle — with its nicks and dented scope — to harvest every deer
I have taken in Pennsylvania during the firearms seasons of the last four decades.
In these ways, I am the average Pennsylvania hunter: Facebook is just
a new fangled gimmick the kids are using these days and deer hunting equals
tradition; whether that tradition means going to camp, using the gun Pap gave
you, or hunting the same seasons you did when you were a kid.


However, there is one big difference between me and the average Pennsylvania
deer hunter — my job. As a deer biologist, I have to look at the big picture when it comes to deer management. When managing an animal that can impact its habitat, other wildlife
species, and people, a “big picture” perspective is a job requirement.


Several years ago, we conducted a citizens advisory committee for a
WMU in central Pennsylvania. The advisory committee’s task was to provide
a deer population recommendation (increase, decrease, or stabilize).
That recommendation along with the other information the Game Commission
collected on the deer population and habitat in that WMU would be
used by us (the deer biologists) to assemble the Deer and Elk Section’s
recommendation for our supervisors. Eventually, that recommendation
would pass up the ladder as an “agency staff recommendation” to the Board of
Game Commissioners, which makes the final decision on all deer management matters.


On this advisory committee, individuals representing hunters, conservationists, property owners, foresters, and farmers were embroiled in a discussion of what to recommend. As part of this discussion, the hunter representative offered his view of the process. He said that sitting at the table with these various groups had really opened his eyes to the complexity of deer management. He said it made him take off his — and I quote — “hillbilly hat” to see the big picture of deer management in this WMU. In the end, this group, like most, worked through its differences, reached a consensus, and made a recommendation.


The hunter who decided on his own to take off his hillbilly hat and consider other viewpoints, was beginning to see the big picture that upon which I and the other deer biologists always focus. Deer populations must be healthy and sustainable. Forests — that support deer and many other wildlife species — must be healthy and sustainable. Conflicts between deer and humans must be tolerable for those who live with them. Recreational opportunities including hunting must be provided. And, if this is not enough, efforts must be made to improve public communications and educational materials about deer and deer management.


It would be easier to manage deer — are too far-reaching to manage this important resource that way. Every management action will have a reaction. Increasing deer populations to satisfy hunters can lead to conflicts with people and greater impacts on forests. Reducing deer populations to reduce conflicts or impacts on forests, can lead to hunters becoming unhappy with the number of deer they see afield. The challenge when working on the big picture of deer management is to balance the impacts and still achieve those five fundamental goals of our deer management program.


As a deer hunter, I like using my old rifle with a dented scope and being out on the opening day of firearms season. Yes, I am tempted to buy a new scope with better optics. But, no, I probably won’t. Would I like to see more deer afield while I am hunting with my sons? Who wouldn’t! I want everything other reasonable hunters want.


But as a deer biologist, I must do the job I have been given to do for all Pennsylvanians, not just for what the hunter in me wants. The deer program must rely on scientifically collected and statistically sound data to prepare our recommendations. This information faces public scrutiny every year in public meetings and when posted on the Game Commission’s white-tailed deer webpage.


My choice of a deer rifle affects only me, so I can be single-minded. But because deer management decisions affect millions of people, a big-picture perspective is the only way to go.


http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/ser...lbilly_hats_pdf

Is your position a short term gain - or a long term loss? Separate the issues.
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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-20-2013, 02:01 AM
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Re: Rosenberry Game News Article - Deer Hunting

Nice read but are these C.A.C. still up and running. The 1 C.A.C. for 2-B was a very big disappointment on the way it was run very slighted

9-11-01 SOME GAVE SOMETHING. 343 GAVE ALL F.D.N.Y.
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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-20-2013, 02:17 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Rosenberry Game News Article - Deer Hunting

No, per the deer audit, they finished all wmu's then went to the surveys. The Audit team said the CAC's were to heavily hunter centric.

Is your position a short term gain - or a long term loss? Separate the issues.
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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-20-2013, 08:54 PM
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Re: Rosenberry Game News Article - Deer Hunting

Cool title and a good read. Waugh!

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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-22-2013, 01:43 PM
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Re: Rosenberry Game News Article - Deer Hunting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twowithone
Nice read but are these C.A.C. still up and running. The 1 C.A.C. for 2-B was a very big disappointment on the way it was run very slighted
The concept of this type of "work team" began in Japan if I recall. US industry began using them in the late 80's. They came with snappy titles usually highlighting quality in the little guys worklife. The selling point was to give the person at the bottom a chance to have input into problem solving.

I joined one when first offered in the 90's where I worked. It quickly became something where we were not allowed input into identifying or solving issues we saw. We were given projects from the top, along with their data to reach a conclusion that we were steered into making. Whereas the solution came from a work team made up of common people, it took on the image of a good decision to those others working along side us.

Once I realized what was happening I quit, as did many others. Eventually the workteams were done away with once the goals were achieved....budget excuse. Laughable because we were not compensated extra for being on a team.

The CACs are just an offshoot of what I, and most likely other people saw/experienced in their own places of employment where the tactic was used.
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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-22-2013, 03:48 PM
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Re: Rosenberry Game News Article - Deer Hunting

Do you have the personal experience of having participated in a PGC/CAC?

Or is this another example of a prejudicial opinion formed from an unrelated experience, transfering to something else entirely?

Primarily because you <span style="font-style: italic">think</span> it is somehow applicable, based on your perceptions of the process?

Some folks' learnin' curves just look like circles...3A Camp/also hunt 4B
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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-22-2013, 04:57 PM
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Re: Rosenberry Game News Article - Deer Hunting

Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyF
Do you have the personal experience of having participated in a PGC/CAC?

Or is this another example of a prejudicial opinion formed from an unrelated experience, transfering to something else entirely?

Primarily because you think it is somehow applicable, based on your perceptions of the process?
No. I didn't sit on a CAC.

Feel free to sell a failed process if you believe differently. From everything I have read, they were no different than what I did experience in the workplace with such an advisory concept.

In fact, my old employer went to a survey after they were no longer used. I don't know how the results of the PGC survey differ from that result, but the results coming from the worker surveys in my old workplace...were twisted so much that the questions leading to them were unrecognizable. It was amazing how much input got twisted into a conclusion they wanted to achieve. Those surveys quickly ended up in the trash can as it was so ridiculous and obvious what that process amounted to.

If the PGC is producing something different...good for the PGC. I just have to see it to trust it before I'll believe it's not the same old game I've experienced in .....life.
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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-22-2013, 06:45 PM
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Re: Rosenberry Game News Article - Deer Hunting

Quote:
From everything I have read, they were no different than what I did experience in the workplace with such an advisory concept.
Then you, like many others, are getting things second and third handed. Which as most should know, means they fall into the "Just Another Opinion" classification.

And apparently since those opinions jibe with your preconceived notions, opinions replace actual facts as useful info. I see a lot of that here and elsewhere.

I participated in one of the WMU/CACs some years ago, found it to be a positive experience and it had no relationship to the one you refer to at your place of employment.

Many years ago when I was a QC tech for a manufacturer, we had monthly sessions on issues pertaining to our tasks. Most of us called them [censored] sessions, if the higher ups tried to steer the consensus in the direction they wanted it to go.

There were two of us who habitually refused to go along with such things if they headed in that direction and insisted an actual consenus based on useful inputs, was the final result. It didn't make us popular with middle management pogues, but the top dog usually had our backs.

That was almost 45 years ago. I ain't much different these days, when it comes to attempts at blowin' smoke up YKW.



I've only ever been a part of one such advisory panel connected to PGC that produced no results. And it essentially failed for one reason: A lack of committment by those orgs/individuals invited to participate. Hard to blame that on PGC?

Some folks' learnin' curves just look like circles...3A Camp/also hunt 4B
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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-22-2013, 07:17 PM
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Re: Rosenberry Game News Article - Deer Hunting

If either party going into such an arrangement has an agenda....those work teams (whatever term used) will fail every time. When they do, there are two sides reporting the cause of it. It could just as accurately be said the PGC didn't get the results they wanted as you saying the others were not committed. So be it...as there is probably a little truth in both versions. It was a failure in the end...predictable based on my personal experience.
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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-22-2013, 07:26 PM
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Re: Rosenberry Game News Article - Deer Hunting

Quote:
It was a failure in the end...predictable based on my personal experience.
What are you refering to as a failure: Your referenced work product, or the CACs? Are you continuing to judge things by your own experiences, or are you open to the possibility of a different scenario altogether?

The CAC I participated in, resulted in a consenus decision to increase the deer herd in our WMU. Even the AG and landscape reps agreed that the deer numbers could go up a bit at the time.

But IIRC, they voted for a slightly lower percentage of growth, than most of the other members.

BTW, there was only one member of that CAC that wasn't a hunter, so that may have accounted for this particular CAC consensus being reached?

Quote:
It could just as accurately be said the PGC didn't get the results they wanted as you saying the others were not committed
Nope. No agendas present, strictly an effort to garner inputs on a particular issue. And it didn't pan out, because those invited either failed to attend both sessions, or never came at all. That falls strictly on a lack of committment on their parts.

Any time I've been invited to participate in discussions/actions on sportsmen's issues - by any entity, I show up if there is no conflict with the date/time.

Some folks' learnin' curves just look like circles...3A Camp/also hunt 4B
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