Not too sure about DMAP??? - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-07-2012, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
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Not too sure about DMAP???

This whole DMAP thing kind of boggles my mind. The PGC has the experts that tell us how many deer the land can support and how many are healthy for the herd. Why do they take the word of landowners that say there are too many deer on their property? From what I've seen, the southeast section of the state is where the herd could stand to be reduced a little. Go to the DMAP map on the PGC website and see how many tags are available in that section. None...not one tag. Then click on some of the counties in the "mountains" where the deer on public land (land that is enrolled in DMAP) are very scarce. There are tons left. The PGC tries to quiet the hunters who say there are no deer in the mountains by reducing the number of antlerless tags, but turns around and lets all of these DMAP tags out. That kind of cancels each other out and we're right back where we started. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that in my opinion, DMAP is further reducing the deer herd in areas where it does not need to be reduced and not reducing it in areas where it needs to be.

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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-07-2012, 12:27 PM
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Re: Not too sure about DMAP???

First off, you cannot force DMAP tags on private property where the landowners do not want to participate. Also, tags in the SE are OTC buy as many as you can anyhow. Land access is the problem period.

The DMAP areas in the "mountains" are State Forest land. DCNR State Forest have more people to evaluate how many deer are on state forest land and their impacts then PGC has experts.
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post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-07-2012, 12:44 PM
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Re: Not too sure about DMAP???

I think the DMAP on the DCNR lands is a bonus.

I have stopped participating in the anterless lottery by purchasing two permits for the DMAP around our cabin.

Walk in, buy license w/ two DMAP tags & muzzleloader and walk out the door w/ everything I need for the year.

I've been in these woods my whole life and the re-growth is taking off. Our problem [in the 3D] is how the DCNR land is intertwined w/ private land including a lot that is developed. I just want to put meat in the freezer and, if able, will fill only one tag. Just want to have every option.

Last year I passed on a button buck, the only chance I got.

I'll use my antler tag in flintlock if I want to hunt outside that DMAP.

4th Generation @ Kamp.

3D - There are STILL a few deer left! You need to pry them out of the developments!
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post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-07-2012, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Not too sure about DMAP???

Quote:
Originally Posted by TPlank
The DMAP areas in the "mountains" are State Forest land. DCNR State Forest have more people to evaluate how many deer are on state forest land and their impacts then PGC has experts.
Therein lies the problem. The DCNR is not concerned with the deer population. They are concerned with the forest itself. The following is their policy statement (taken directly from their website):

Policy Statement

State forest lands will be managed to provide a sustained yield of high quality timber and other wood products. The successful and timely regeneration of diverse forest communities will be promoted on state forest lands. The management of state forest lands will demonstrate and promote silvicultural practices that sustain ecological and economic forest values.

Also, check out the DCNR's goals. They have 5 main goals with a each having at least 3 subtopics. Only once does it mention working with the PGC. Every other topic and subtopic has to do with the health of the forest and the econimic value of timber.

DCNR Goals

Obviously, the best way to have a forest with successful economic values is to eliminate anything that could jeopardize that...including the deer. I just think that the deer population is being mismanaged, but I'm not really sure how it can be fixed. I do think that that the DCNR, who best interest isn't in the hunters, should not be doing it.

You can shear a sheep many times, but you can only skin it once.
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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-07-2012, 01:11 PM
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Re: Not too sure about DMAP???

LOL I just have to laugh at this.... I Love how so many people are so against managing a forest for timber, when they use wood products EVERYDAY... Next time i'm at lowes, i'll ask them where they grow those 2x4's, and next time I'm at the grocery store, i'll ask them where the garden is that they grow the paper towels and toilet paper, and that nice white/red oak floor that's in your living room? Hmmm wonder where they made that wood... Oh, and that nice black chery coffee table? I think that table grew it's "legs" at walmart, but the table top had to come from IKEA....

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post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-07-2012, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Not too sure about DMAP???

Where did I say that I was against managing the forest for timber? What I was saying is that I'm not 100% sure that DMAP is the way to manage the deer herd. Does the DCNR have to prove to the PGC that there is a deer problem or do they just take their word for it? The DCNR gets no money from license sales and the deer hurt their profit, so obviously they want the herd reduced.

You can shear a sheep many times, but you can only skin it once.
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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-07-2012, 02:53 PM
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Re: Not too sure about DMAP???

If you are from York, I can see your problem. You have no state forests and parks, where DMAP's are mostly allocated.

If I get to PA this year, it will just be buck, as it'll be a last minute decision.
Of course, I had to check DMAP's, as I hunt where there are state forests, that have had DMAP's. I don't want to buck hunt, too often in areas, that have too much of a doe allocation. I'd use it as a control for a half day or day at most, to get my current bearings.

I don't hunt the York area, because it lacks public hunting. No DMAP's is the least of my concern.
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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-07-2012, 03:11 PM
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Re: Not too sure about DMAP???

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlfb74
Where did I say that I was against managing the forest for timber? What I was saying is that I'm not 100% sure that DMAP is the way to manage the deer herd. Does the DCNR have to prove to the PGC that there is a deer problem or do they just take their word for it? The DCNR gets no money from license sales and the deer hurt their profit, so obviously they want the herd reduced.
Yes, they do. They had to come up with a management plan back a year or two ago when the idea came up to do away with DMAP tags on state forest.

There are a few state forest that are starting to do away with DMAP. either it's not getting the desired affects on the vegetion, suggesting that deer are not the main issue in regenerating both desired tree species and native flora/ground cover species, or they have gotten the desired deer density to where the deer are not affecting the above, and genearl doe license are all they feel are necessary to control the deer numbers.

If DMAP tags are not the best way to control the deer numbers, let me ask you this... What is then? It's been clearly proven time and time again, both in PA and other states, that the best way to control a deer herd is through doe harvesting. So tell me how DMAP is not the best way to control the herd density?

"I've never seen a wild thing feel sorry for itself..."
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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-07-2012, 05:40 PM
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Re: Not too sure about DMAP???

You do realize that actually getting trees to grow=better habitat=more deer in the long term, right?

Iím a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it.
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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-07-2012, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Not too sure about DMAP???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killin'time
If DMAP tags are not the best way to control the deer numbers, let me ask you this... What is then? It's been clearly proven time and time again, both in PA and other states, that the best way to control a deer herd is through doe harvesting. So tell me how DMAP is not the best way to control the herd density?
That's a very good question. I can't speak for the entire state, but in the past few years, I've hunted in Sullivan, Clinton, Lycoming and Huntingdon counties in areas that are enrolled in DMAP. Trust me, there was no over abundance of deer whatsoever. Like some said previously, there is so much private land in the SE. It is virtually impossible to manage the herd because there is no access to hunting them. That's where the efforts need to be centered. Gaining access to private lands that have too many deer. Landowners need some sort of incentive to open their land up. Tax breaks, fuel allowances, discounts on seed or fertilizer, etc...something. Like I said before, hunters are being encouraged to hunt areas that really do not have a deer problem through DMAP. Right now DMAP gives more antlerless licenses to large area that are already open to public hunting. That's no where the overpopulated areas are.

You can shear a sheep many times, but you can only skin it once.
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