Have foresters hijacked deer management in PA? - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-07-2012, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
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Have foresters hijacked deer management in PA?

Have people who want to grow trees taken over deer management in PA?

Thoughts?
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post #2 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-07-2012, 03:45 PM
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Re: Have foresters hijacked deer management in PA?

The whole "It's about Timber Certification" has been around since day 1. While the timber industry is certainly a "player", they aren't the only stakeholder. There are many "players" that have a vested interest in Deer numbers.

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post #3 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-07-2012, 04:02 PM
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Re: Have foresters hijacked deer management in PA?

Dont think so. Proper habitat should be in everyones best interest.

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post #4 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-07-2012, 04:08 PM
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Re: Have foresters hijacked deer management in PA?

*Yawn*

Do some research as to what actual deer habitat is, and then come back to me and tell me how exactly foresters ruined deer management.

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post #5 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-07-2012, 06:32 PM
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Re: Have foresters hijacked deer management in PA?

no, now can we move on. Keystonepaul
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post #6 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-07-2012, 06:53 PM
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Re: Have foresters hijacked deer management in PA?

If deer don't have woody browse and young saplings to browse in the winter, what do they eat then? If anything, foresters will be what makes hunting BETTER in this state.

Early successional habitat helps grouse and woodcock and deer and all kinds of critters.

The man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic. ~Roosevelt
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post #7 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-07-2012, 07:27 PM
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Re: Have foresters hijacked deer management in PA?

I agree we need foresters to help us out. However, I have heard many of arguements saying they take too many oaks and what not for the deer to forage...I'm not too familiar with the exact trees they usually take, but I do know the deer benefit from the browse and young trees that re-establish themselves.

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post #8 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-07-2012, 07:31 PM
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Re: Have foresters hijacked deer management in PA?

Forests, regen = food and cover.

This is the part many miss in the three goals of the deer program. "A sustainable forest for the future" means having trees and bushes that make a healthy forest. That healthy forest being the year around food source for not only deer, but all the woodland critters.

Second thing missed by many (me as well for a long time) - being green and thick does not make it deer food. Deer are picky eaters. They have a preference, just like us two footer critters... Then unlike us, they can not go to the store and by Vita Vitamins or better food. they have what they have - the nutritional requirements are set by Ma Nature.

Deer not getting the daily MA Nature approved levels of nutrients means a smaller, more disease prone herd that is less likely to produce next years fawns.

So the sustainable forests make a sustainable deer herd. The healthier more balanced the two are to each other makes it better for both. It also makes it better for the other woodland critters that also depend on what the growing season produces.

Always remember. It is not mast (acorns) that gets a deer through the six or seven months of no growth (Late fall, winter, early spring) it is what grew the prior spring and summer. Mast is a temporary high calorie food. Temporary being the operative word there. It is also unreliable as at times, it will not be produced in any volume for several back to back years.

Browse is the answer. The experts on producing commercially desirable trees are the foresters. The experts on using those same tree species as a primary and preferred food source are deer.

Support the foresters and you support the deer.


As for the forest certification - I personally can take it or leave it. It is wrapped in politics and the social greening movement. but in the long run, it is no real issue to the deer numbers. Foresters would be asking for X harvest of deer with it or without.

For those still hung up on the forest certification, take it on as a separate issue. It is a convenient scape goat for some in the "no deer" crowd for sure. Clearly it addresses and mandates deer management as part of the program. Add the Eco - groups heading the program up - a hot button wild card for sure. But Understanding the forestry practices in use today, forest certification aside, in relation to the deer program and hunter desires makes it a non-issue.

If this runs true to form, someone will comment on or post the 300 page Audubon report of one of the SCI Audits and the mandate of deer removal. If so, take a serious look at it. Then look at the actual practices and harvest numbers.

DMAP is a very small percentage of harvest total. Even alone and by itself. The actual harvest numbers are small compared to the number of tags issued. Seriously, we are talking single digit success rates. Low single digits at that.

Is your position a short term gain - or a long term loss? Separate the issues.
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post #9 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-07-2012, 08:37 PM
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Re: Have foresters hijacked deer management in PA?

i'm starting a new thread, "have farmers taken over cattle management in pa?" deer are no different than cattle, they need to eat to florish. and foresters are no different than farmers, they manage the land where the food grows, no? and while a good crop certinly benifits the farmer and the forester, those same crops benifit the cattle or deer. simple, but some find it hard to understand.

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post #10 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-07-2012, 08:56 PM
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Re: Have foresters hijacked deer management in PA?

Timbering certainly improves deer habitat, but I dont think that was the OP's point. I believe the real issue is this stakeholder groups input insisting on low deer densities. And yes, I believe the timber industry is a HUGE player in this, along with a couple of other stakeholders. And no, I dont believe for a moment the main intent was "healthier" deer when across the state, the data has shown nothing wrong with that health in most areas according to annual report data. No way was all the effort trouble and money spent just to address this nonissue.

Id also agree about the dmap numbers being relatively low and not much of an issue overall, but the allocations are not. And a significant portion of those allocations are no doubt in the hands of hunters looking to hunt those public lands open to anyone. So its not as if those lands are only effected by dmap.

I actually support the dmap program, and think it should be available to anyone who wants it on their lands, but cutting the overall allocation to reasonable levels. I havent seen a big demand for dmap according to historical signups. But if landowners dont feel they have deer problems, then they have no deer problem.
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