Tired of hearing it..... - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 81 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 11:23 AM Thread Starter
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Tired of hearing it.....

The deer management issue is starting to sound like a broken record. Although i agree there is a serious problem in some parts of the state.
The thing that bothers me the most is all the complaining i hear and no actions being taken.
Does anyone know the definition of democracy anymore? Let me refresh your memory...simply put... "Gov't in which the people hold the ruling power."
So in a nutshell...if your cries and complaints about low deer density continually fall on deaf ears and we as sportsman do nothing..well?...who's fault is that?
A few years ago here in our neighborhood we noticed a declining deer population. Yet the PGC continued to issue more doe tags and then on top of it, mandate a two week long Antlered and Anterless ,if its "brown its down" season.
We as a neighborhood decided enough is enough. By spreading the word and encouraging friends and neighbors to limit the doe kill in our area. We have been fairly successful in maintaining a healthy deer herd.
Although we doe shoot a few doe..We limit our kill..for example i have decided not to shoot a doe if i see the cabin down the road has already shot a few...nothing scientific about it...we just limit our kill...almost all the neighbors are in agreement on this. Some have posted their ground against doe hunting. We have thousands of acres of state Forest land at our disposal. And we manage the state ground in our area the same way. I realize we can only control our local neighborhood. But the funny thing is When i get away from our "neck of the woods"..For the most part i see a decline in deer numbers.
I should also note we indeed have new seedlings sprouting up..i can take you to places on the mt that are full of young oak, maple ect...so no we are not overbrowsed..
If you continue to see declining deer numbers in your area..Why not do the same?....The PGC and state forestry really only have power if you allow them to have it...Frankly the PGC cannot force you to shoot more deer.
They may protest and try to belittle sportsman into thinking we as a people are not intelligent enough to manage a deer herd. Yet there are large private associations that have proven time and time again that they are more than capable.
i am all for a PGC and its laws....as long as it is indeed goverened "by the people and for the people"
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post #2 of 81 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 01:28 PM
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Re: cordTired of hearing it.....

Another person laboring under the mistaken belief that the PGC should do what hunters want just because they want it. We are where we are today because past boards of of the Commission didn't have the courage <span style="font-weight: bold">NOT</span> to do what hunters wanted. Another person who now sees some regeneration ocurring and instead of seeing progress now wants to go back to where we started by allowing once again too many deer which will quickly undo all the progress we have made . Another person looking for instant satisfaction. It took decades for the damage to ocurr and the problem will not be solved in only one decade. I too am tired, tired of those who refust to see the forest through the deer.




When you are up to your butt in alligators, it is hard to remember your intent was to drain the swamp. Stay focused!
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post #3 of 81 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 01:58 PM
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Re: cordTired of hearing it.....

The deer management issue is a broken record, one that will never be fixed to everyones satifaction. That is why many hunters discuss it here and every where else. Their is nothing wrong with asking questions unless you are only looking for someone to agree with you and wont accept answers that don't.

Only fools fight in a burning house...Day of the dove
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post #4 of 81 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 02:26 PM
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Re: cordTired of hearing it.....

I am with you shade. What some people, who are all ra ra that the pgc has a handle on deer polulation for the whole state, fail to realize is that the PGC does not have a handle on the whole state. The DPSM in some areas is way below the carrying capacity of the land, some places it is balanced, still some places with too many (very limited areas IMO).

What would be nice would be if there was a way for sportsmen to get some type of feedback from the PGC regarding the deer density in a specific geographical area. Maybe there is, and I don't know about it. However, we still have to realize that under the current WMU's, the areas are too large to control the harvest for a subsection of the area. For overall HR, the units were suitable. Now that we have accomplished HR (most places), there is no way the herd will remain even remotely balanced across a WMU. Going back to the county map, may not be the answer either, but it would at least give a smaller area (easier to control harvest) to work with. If they did go back to the county map, I would like to see a biologist assess every county at least once every 2 or three years, after each assessment, they should hold a public meeting in the county to review the assessment with the public and allow input/questions. These assessments should be on record and reviewable via the PGC web page. Maybe something along the same line is available now, I don't know, if it is, a generalization of deer populations on an entire WMU is not good enough IMO.

I don't mind changes, as long as the people in charge realize that not every change is going to be a success. And when a change is not successful or even if it has accomplished the original goal, I want those same people to man up and admit it, then propose another change to fix it or in the case where it has met it's goal, to relinquish that change. Problem is, nobody wants to admit to a anything less than a 100% success (no matter the stage).
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post #5 of 81 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 02:31 PM
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Re: cordTired of hearing it.....

There will allways be areas with high numbers of deer and areas that have too little deer.Issuing tags on a county by county basis was hard enough ,now we have much larger "zones".
There are too many variables that interfere with harvesting the proper amount of deer for a given area. You have areas with posted ground,housing developments,low hunting pressure etc, that the deer are under harvested on then you have public land that gets pounded.Too manage properly you would have to issue tags on a township by township basis, But the cost to do this is why it will never happen.
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post #6 of 81 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 03:36 PM
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Re: cordTired of hearing it.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by John S
Another person laboring under the mistaken belief that the PGC should do what hunters want just because they want it. We are where we are today because past boards of of the Commission didn't have the courage NOT to do what hunters wanted. Another person who now sees some regeneration ocurring and instead of seeing progress now wants to go back to where we started by allowing once again too many deer which will quickly undo all the progress we have made . Another person looking for instant satisfaction. It took decades for the damage to ocurr and the problem will not be solved in only one decade. I too am tired, tired of those who refust to see the forest through the deer.
No it won't but you should see some change in the forest and there isn't anything new in my area they need to quit focusing on just the deer and start looking at stuff such as acid rain.
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post #7 of 81 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 04:23 PM
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Re: cordTired of hearing it.....

Did you know what it looked like before HR?




When you are up to your butt in alligators, it is hard to remember your intent was to drain the swamp. Stay focused!
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post #8 of 81 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 04:36 PM
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Re: cordTired of hearing it.....

Quote:
...they need to quit focusing on just the deer and start looking at stuff such as acid rain.
OK...tell me what the PGC can do about acid rain??

Can they tell all the electric power plants to stop burning coal??? Think they would listen. LOL
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post #9 of 81 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 05:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: cordTired of hearing it.....


John
Do you truly believe the PGC has a handle on the deer populations in all areas? surely your not that naive?..i support the PGC and its laws..But when a local community of sportsman realize that the local deer herd is at a dangerous low, and they take it upon themselves to limit their kill. Are you saying thats wrong! ? I would say that your biggest problem you have with it, isn't so much the deer number issue as it is the loss of control.
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post #10 of 81 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: cordTired of hearing it.....

lol..actualy the more i think about it the more bizzare it seems...so what your saying is it's wrong for PA sportsman to exercise their God given freedom to NOT kill a doe?
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