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post #1 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-28-2011, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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Grant Woods PhD.

Lord knows no one would dare question our beloved deer program, or QDM biologist, but did any one read his article in Outdoor Life on deer numbers and predators?

I'm thinking tar and feathers would be in order for any one suggesting we might be killing to many deer!

Oh the humanity!
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post #2 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-28-2011, 07:00 PM
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Re: Grant Woods PhD.

I can't find the article you are refering to online. Do you have a link for it?

I don't subscribe to Outdoor Life.
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post #3 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-28-2011, 07:15 PM
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Re: Grant Woods PhD.

I did a bit of research to try to find out what the PGC's position on predators effect on the deer population is, and amazingly enough, I found it. If you go to the following page and then scroll down to the section on deer biology you will find it.

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal...ity/deer/11949

Here is a small portion of the beginning of that paper quoted:
Quote:
Predation and Pennsylvania’s Deer Population
January 2010
Predators kill white-tailed deer. Field studies from across the United States, including Pennsylvania, show that predators – notably coyotes, bears, and bobcats – prey on white-tailed deer. Predation is a natural form of mortality for white-tailed deer.
Recent field studies from southeastern United States have prompted some to suggest antlerless license allocations in Pennsylvania be reduced to compensate for predation losses. These studies indicated predators had substantial impact on deer populations on study areas in Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina. Because of these studies, questions about the role of predators in deer management in Pennsylvania are being asked: are predators reducing Pennsylvania’s deer populations? Should antlerless allocations be cut?
Field studies in Pennsylvania confirm that predators prey on white-tailed deer; especially young fawns. Based on available data, including field studies from Pennsylvania, no evidence supports reducing antlerless allocations to compensate for predation on deer.
Predators impact young fawns most
Predators kill most deer during their first summer (birth to approximately 12 weeks of age). We reported this in our own study during the summers of 2000 and 2001 when we radio-tagged over 200 fawns and monitored them closely to measure cause-specific mortality. Of the fawns killed by predators in our study, 84 percent were killed prior to 9 weeks of age. Coyotes and bears killed similar numbers of fawns. In the South Carolina study, 100 percent of fawns killed by predators were killed within 9 weeks of birth. Despite predation and other mortality causes, 57 to 72 percent of fawns were still alive in Pennsylvania at 9 weeks of age.
Predators have less effect on older deer. In Pennsylvania, the Game Commission has monitored over 1,500 radio-collared deer aged 6 months and older. Based on hundreds of recorded mortalities of radio-collared older deer, less than 1 percent was caused by predators. Outside of hunting seasons, deer older than 6 months have survival rates of 80 to 90 percent in Pennsylvania.
I hope this helps in your continuing quest for the truth.
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post #4 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-28-2011, 07:27 PM
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Re: Grant Woods PhD.

My brother lives in rural Lehigh county. There was a coyote den on the neighbor's property and they put a trail cam at the den. They are pics of 8 fawn being brought in.

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post #5 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-28-2011, 07:33 PM
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Re: Grant Woods PhD.

I'm thinking that just the disturbance of putting a trail cam up at a den would be enough to move the pups.

There are so many variations of the trail cam/fawns dragged into the den story, that all of them are suspect.



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post #6 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-28-2011, 07:38 PM
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Re: Grant Woods PhD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tundragriz
My brother lives in rural Lehigh county. There was a coyote den on the neighbor's property and they put a trail cam at the den. They are pics of 8 fawn being brought in.
Post the pics. Or, did they erase them? Your story is believable. The story of the 52 fawns being taken to the den is not lol. And yes, coyotes do eat fawns. The PGC study proved it.

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post #7 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-28-2011, 07:47 PM
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Re: Grant Woods PhD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch
I'm thinking that just the disturbance of putting a trail cam up at a den would be enough to move the pups.

There are so many variations of the trail cam/fawns dragged into the den story, that all of them are suspect.
Irrelevant if you believe me or not. I've got a good relation with my brother, "I" know he isn't lying, he isn't on the net and it was from last spring. I have no interest in pursuing it, take it or leave it, unimportant to me. I'm a coyote trapper as you can see from my avatar and I can assure you it is possible to place a manmade object, visit it every single day, and still have a coyote return, sometimes even after losing its mate there.

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post #8 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-28-2011, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Grant Woods PhD.

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Originally Posted by muttleysback
I can't find the article you are refering to online. Do you have a link for it?

I don't subscribe to Outdoor Life.
I was reading it in a waiting room. but this looks like a link.

Certainly a different take than the kill them all crowd, which he admits he believed we could never kill to many, but that view has changed.

Very interesting read compared to the kool aid crowd that says listen to the biologist, they know best.

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/articles...e-outdoor.html
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post #9 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-28-2011, 09:06 PM
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Re: Grant Woods PhD.

unless i read that wrong, it said habitat loss & maturing forests are the biggest problems. aren't habitat & maturing forests a couple of the cornerstones of the pgc deer reduction program?

which biolgists should we beleive? oh yeah, the ones who disagree with the pgc, got it.

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post #10 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-28-2011, 09:14 PM
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Re: Grant Woods PhD.

Yep, you got it.




When you are up to your butt in alligators, it is hard to remember your intent was to drain the swamp. Stay focused!
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